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IP addresses through 2024

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Re: IP addresses through 2024

#21

Post by Dylan16807 »

bruce511 wrote: post #10
ahsteele wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s really hard to even comprehend how large IPv6 is. I have found that extreme examples tend to help people get there. Here are some I’ve used in the past. There are enough IPv6 Addresses for 4.77 x 10^28 for every living person. If each IPv6 address was a grain of sand… That’s 2.39 × 10^18 of addresses per person, or roughly enough sand sized addresses to equal about 1.8 times the volume of earths ocean per person…

Hah - all of those examples use a planet as comparison. The first 16 bits of the address should be reserved to be used by the Planetary Internet Addressing Council (PIAC) Allocating all addresses to Earth seems very shortsighted. (Some sarcasm should be assumed.) It doesn't really matter how you explain large-number math to people who are bad at large-number math (aka all of us) - there's always some bright-spark who…

The moon can share with the earth, and anything further away needs special encapsulation to deal with hours or more of latency.

Re: IP addresses through 2024

#22

Post by atq2119 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #21
bruce511 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah - all of those examples use a planet as comparison. The first 16 bits of the address should be reserved to be used by the Planetary Internet Addressing Council (PIAC) Allocating all addresses to Earth seems very shortsighted. (Some sarcasm should be assumed.) It doesn't really matter how you explain large-number math to people who are bad at large-number math (aka all of us) - there's always some bright-spark who…

The moon can share with the earth, and anything further away needs special encapsulation to deal with hours or more of latency.

It's only minutes for the inner planets. But of course that's already enough to require special treatment.

Re: IP addresses through 2024

#23

Post by zeristor »

wpm wrote: post #15
mike_d wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People get caught up in how many IPv6 addresses exist, as if we will always have enough to go around. Recently Capital One was assigned a /16, enough for every ATM in the US to be its own ISP and make its own customer allocations. We continue to repeat the same mistakes that made people believe we needed v6 in the first place. We will never run out of IPv6, but I believe in my lifetime you won't be able to get new v6…

Then, we’ll make IPv8, with 2^1024 address, which will be incompatible with IPv6 and IPv4 and all software on release, and will take decades before any appreciable uptake. Addresses will use hexadecimal, as well as the entire 4-byte Unicode table of emoji and Egyptian hieroglyphics, with octet separated by $ and { symbols for heightened readability.

I believe IPv8 does something else:

https://py-ipv8.readthedocs.io/en/latest/

Re: IP addresses through 2024

#24

Post by gorgoiler »

mike_d wrote: post #11
ironhaven wrote: post #7

I feel like this blog does not accurately describe how large the ipv6 address space even after accounting for it being reduced by 2^64 for the host portion of the address. If it did it would make the concerned comments about /28 ipv6 network sizes seem very misplaced. A single static ipv4 address is a /32 slice into the ipv4 space and is considered a reasonable to size give out to a single person or even a small busi…

People get caught up in how many IPv6 addresses exist, as if we will always have enough to go around. Recently Capital One was assigned a /16, enough for every ATM in the US to be its own ISP and make its own customer allocations. We continue to repeat the same mistakes that made people believe we needed v6 in the first place. We will never run out of IPv6, but I believe in my lifetime you won't be able to get new v6…

A /16 is the first quarter of the network prefix. That is indeed like assigning an IPv4 /8 to General Electric in 1985 and then wondering why, 40 years later, we’re out of address space.

Re: IP addresses through 2024

#25

Post by gorgoiler »

ahsteele wrote: post #9
ironhaven wrote: post #7

I feel like this blog does not accurately describe how large the ipv6 address space even after accounting for it being reduced by 2^64 for the host portion of the address. If it did it would make the concerned comments about /28 ipv6 network sizes seem very misplaced. A single static ipv4 address is a /32 slice into the ipv4 space and is considered a reasonable to size give out to a single person or even a small busi…

It’s really hard to even comprehend how large IPv6 is. I have found that extreme examples tend to help people get there. Here are some I’ve used in the past. There are enough IPv6 Addresses for 4.77 x 10^28 for every living person. If each IPv6 address was a grain of sand… That’s 2.39 × 10^18 of addresses per person, or roughly enough sand sized addresses to equal about 1.8 times the volume of earths ocean per person…

Chess has 1e100 possible games but the more practical metric is that the average game involves 40 black moves and 40 white moves.

Similarly, it’s better to think of the depth of a network’s topology. The size of the tree when full is immaterial, especially when the last 64 bits is intended to be so sparse that random address assignment is viable.

Re: IP addresses through 2024

#26

Post by nottorp »

mike_d wrote: post #11
ironhaven wrote: post #7

I feel like this blog does not accurately describe how large the ipv6 address space even after accounting for it being reduced by 2^64 for the host portion of the address. If it did it would make the concerned comments about /28 ipv6 network sizes seem very misplaced. A single static ipv4 address is a /32 slice into the ipv4 space and is considered a reasonable to size give out to a single person or even a small busi…

People get caught up in how many IPv6 addresses exist, as if we will always have enough to go around. Recently Capital One was assigned a /16, enough for every ATM in the US to be its own ISP and make its own customer allocations. We continue to repeat the same mistakes that made people believe we needed v6 in the first place. We will never run out of IPv6, but I believe in my lifetime you won't be able to get new v6…

> Recently Capital One was assigned a /16

So besides the bad design ipv6 is also badly managed?

Re: IP addresses through 2024

#27

Post by nottorp »

ahsteele wrote: post #9
ironhaven wrote: post #7

I feel like this blog does not accurately describe how large the ipv6 address space even after accounting for it being reduced by 2^64 for the host portion of the address. If it did it would make the concerned comments about /28 ipv6 network sizes seem very misplaced. A single static ipv4 address is a /32 slice into the ipv4 space and is considered a reasonable to size give out to a single person or even a small busi…

It’s really hard to even comprehend how large IPv6 is. I have found that extreme examples tend to help people get there. Here are some I’ve used in the past. There are enough IPv6 Addresses for 4.77 x 10^28 for every living person. If each IPv6 address was a grain of sand… That’s 2.39 × 10^18 of addresses per person, or roughly enough sand sized addresses to equal about 1.8 times the volume of earths ocean per person…

> It’s really hard to even comprehend how large IPv6 is.

But the allocations for a single device are so large that it's not actually as large as it seems to be. Kinda like usb N only working at N-2 speeds...

Re: IP addresses through 2024

#28

Post by chippiewill »

wmf wrote: post #14
mike_d wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is when Amazon stopped pouring money into buying up as much IPv4 as possible and the market returned to demand based pricing.

Is Amazon not demand? Do they exist outside economics? (Legally they're supposed to use those addresses within a year(?) of buying them, but I won't pretend that anyone would really notice whether that's the case or not.)

It's easy for Amazon to artificially use their address space because they can rotate them around customers using dynamic allocations.

Re: IP addresses through 2024

#29

Post by oefrha »

mike_d wrote: post #11
ironhaven wrote: post #7

I feel like this blog does not accurately describe how large the ipv6 address space even after accounting for it being reduced by 2^64 for the host portion of the address. If it did it would make the concerned comments about /28 ipv6 network sizes seem very misplaced. A single static ipv4 address is a /32 slice into the ipv4 space and is considered a reasonable to size give out to a single person or even a small busi…

People get caught up in how many IPv6 addresses exist, as if we will always have enough to go around. Recently Capital One was assigned a /16, enough for every ATM in the US to be its own ISP and make its own customer allocations. We continue to repeat the same mistakes that made people believe we needed v6 in the first place. We will never run out of IPv6, but I believe in my lifetime you won't be able to get new v6…

Thanks, I missed this story. According to https://old.reddit.com/r/ipv6/comments/17yuqvp/til_capital_o..., the largest allocations by RIRs other than ARIN do not exceed /19, and those are for national telecom providers. Who are these ARIN people and how can they be held accountable for their idiotic management of public resources, which appear to be consistently terrible for decades?
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