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Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

oecdecoscope.blog

411–420 of 660 posts

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not bothered by if you think it's a good idea or a bad idea. If you want to learn about the largest undertaking of the exact housing idea you are proposing, there is a wealth of knowledge available from programs that involved entire nations and isn't just an idea in your head.

Okay, how about this program? It's a bit dated, but it comes from a country I hope you won't find as objectionable as the USSR. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_Act_of_1949

Isn't that just your run of the mill public housing program, that every country has? We were talking about free housing for everyone.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#412
post #344
post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can say all day that my ideas are 'good.' But the only place in the modern era that has tried mass 'free housing' are communist ones and all those societies stopped doing it or failed altogether. That doesn't seem like it has worked out as a 'good idea.'

Did you read the article?

Finland does not have free housing for everybody. Finland has never had free housing for everybody. Finland will never have free housing for everybody. For historical examples of that idea, you have to look to the neighbour in the East.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#413
post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would they not scale? Due to the complexity and diversity in economic, cultural, and social value networks. For example, the approach which is working for Modesto will probably not work for San Francisco.

Disagree. Due to the complexity and diversity in economic, cultural, and social value networks it's actually easier to build housing.

Yes, just like how due to the diversity of Whole Foods workers it's easier for them to unionize.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#415
post #220

They also do a lot of compulsory psychiatric detention: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/psychiatric-bulletin... > Finnish mental health legislation takes a medical approach to compulsory measures, emphasising the need for treatment of psychiatric patients over civil liberties concerns... Finland has the highest rates of detention per 100 000 inhabitants, about 214 compared with 93 in the UK and 11 in Italy. >…

> I should mention that I've seen fairly convincing cross-sectional evidence that homelessness is more related to the housing market than mental illness This is absolutely the right diagnosis. For instance, SROs used to be very affordable.[1] Placing someone into housing was well within the means of local governments and non-profits. In Coppola's 1974 movie The Conversation, a large portion of the titular dialogue is…

Ooh, as an American involved lightly in real estate who relocated to Suomi a few years ago I always love this topic. Let me ramble.

It's worth pointing out that, on a country-wide level, Finnish housing prices have been remarkably stagnant for the last 20-30 years when compared to e.g. the United States or most other European countries. That is not true of the cities, obviously, and cities are where all the work is, but it is quite possible here to find very cheap housing in the "middle of nowhere".

Government subsidies don't change that dramatically between these different areas, so it's entirely possible to rent e.g. a studio apartment someplace like Kemi or Vaasa for 500€/month or lower and then just coast if you are willing to put in some effort. If you're willing to live with roommates, who may well be running the same strategy you are, it becomes even easier. (The downside is you then have to live there. Many of these areas have record high unemployment rates, for much the same reasons 3000 person towns in the United States do. Having done something like that for a year, I can report it felt like living in cryostasis.)

So there's arguably an oversupply of Finnish housing in these remote areas, and most of the country is correctly classified as remote (seriously, look at a map, Finland is huge for 5 million people). One interesting mechanism which might help curb that oversupply in the coming decades is the 15% inheritance tax - many people who live in these areas are older and don't want to hand down e.g. a $50,000 valuation home to their kids and then force them to somehow pony up 7.5k in liquid capital. That incentivizes them to sell sooner rather than later.

The more interesting question: Has Finnish housing supply growth in areas like Helsinki, Tampere and Turku kept up with demand growth? I suspect that no matter which country we're looking at, the one which answers that correctly today for their largest cities will be the best place overall to live 10 or 20 years from now. Personally I'll always prefer Finland's massive concrete suburbs to the endless, pointless sea of single family homes I grew up in in the States, and I hope we keep building more of them!

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#416
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finland has figured out a number of thing it seems other than homelessness. Their education system is pretty interesting, and their policing system has some approaches to interacting with the community as well. If I can find the links I'll share. Skepticism is fine, but it shouldn't be a reason to discount or dismiss something, nor does it mean to accept it. Take it in as a data point.

Finland elected the most right-leaning government in the history of the country in 2023. A lot of the education, social, and healthcare system is facing deep cuts at the moment. Economy has not recovered from the fall of Nokia around 2010, so needs for social services would actually be growing.

Well, that's something else. Hopefully they don't dismantle their education system, and policing ways, and whatever else they have going.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Finland has the highest rates of detention per 100 000 inhabitants, about 214 compared with 93 in the UK ..." Wow those numbers seem high if they're counting unique people and not admissions and re-admisisons.

I think there is a bit of nuance to this. The UK also has about 500 or so homeless people per 100000 inabitants. In the US the number of people in prisons is about that number per 100K. On top of their huge homeless problem. There is the brutal reality that the climate in Finland and being homeless are not a great combination in the winter. And the summers are short. Getting people off the streets saves lives. If it'…

> If it's -20 during the night you can either lock people up or collect their corpses in the morning.

Or put floor heating under the streets like they did in Jyväskylä!

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#418
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US and Europe have different reasone for homelessnes. Give free houses in US and next day you will have +400mln people from South America. In EU (I can speak for Poland) most homeless have alcohol and violence problems - people removed from homes for domestic violence by court (divorce). You must be quite bad person if no one takes care of you, in a country with a) strong family tights and b) many people owning a hom…

Now consider that most homeless in Poland are male. There _exist_ people who never had family, or ruthless real estate grabbers who'd rather have real estate for themselves and a homeless family member. > people removed from homes for domestic violence by court (divorce) This is classic why the husband moves out, have you ever dealt with family courts as a male in Poland, nothing rings the bell for you? So a male hom…

there are many organisations and individuals who will help you, if you are sober and non-violent, actually everyone will like cheap workforce - I know few cases like that, someone taken from street to farm or similar.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do most people have only one job? Wouldn't it be better to spend evenings at a second job and then have leisure when you retire?

I guess you're trying to make some point, but I don't really see it.

The poster above you is making a comparison between working a job and finding a job.

Working a job: you spend 8-12 hours at the job and then spend your leisure time doing other things, like studying or meeting friends or watching tv.

Finding a job: you spend 8-12 hours trying to find a job, and then you spend your leisure time doing other things, like volunteering.

The question you posed earlier was, why wouldn't someone just spend all available time (let's say 16 hours per day) trying to find a job, instead of doing anything else, like volunteering. The poster above you was responding to that, trying to demonstrate how the same suggestion would be ridiculous in the context of working a job, and it should be equally ridiculous in the context of finding a job.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#420
post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fifty years ago in Ontario, Canada if you were a single adult destitute with no income you would be eligible for general welfare which would pay about $180 a month, when the average rent on 1 bedroom apartment in Toronto was about $150 a month. Today, an adult in the same position gets about $800 while rent is $1300. It used to be possible to afford (slummy) housing at market rates, even for the very poor. Now it is…

It can be viewed as a housing supply issue.

Doesn’t matter how much money in the system, if there are 100 homes and 110 people, ten will be homeless.
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