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I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

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Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#581

Post by unethical_ban »

rtkwe wrote: post #474
unethical_ban wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is hilariously naive. Particularly in the age of AI, professors might have to go back to the practice of oral exams to have people demonstrate their understanding of an issue. The problem for universities is that means you have to have a lower student:teacher ratio.

Check the date on the issue... it's from 2015 way before (gen) AI was even close to being a thing much less being useful for actual coding.

I know - that's why I said "particularly". I was in college in the era of Facebook being for college students only.

My point was that a professor cannot fault providers of information on the internet for their students' unethical behavior. And if they can't trust their students to do remote assignments, then they should test with more reliable methods like in-person examinations.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#583

Post by rtkwe »

hooverd wrote: post #571
croemer wrote: post #556

His (presumed) dad commented this on LinkedIn: > I have seen all the emails now and it's as bad as described. I thought there might be some hyperbole but the "University Registrar and Chief Officer of Enrollment Information Services" is clearly saying "work with us to build this for free or you're not graduating". They even specify that he needs to set up the meeting "well before registration opens on February 13th f…

I wish they would post the emails. It's all hearsay still.

Email text can be easily faked too, there's really no reason to weigh them higher than the story other than they can be slightly tricky to fake the style and verbiage you might expect to see from that type of email.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#584

Post by kelnos »

jdkaim wrote: post #7

Update: I immediately took down my class project site after receiving yesterday’s ultimatum. I still don’t think the simple demo site violated the letter or spirit of the registration rules, but I took it down because I always want to operate in good faith. They followed up today to thank me for doing it, but also indicated that they were putting a hold on my account anyway. As a result, I am not going to be able to…

> I am not planning to get a lawyer involved as I have faith that UW leadership will make it right in the end.

That's incredibly foolish. UW has treated you very poorly at this point, and they have all the leverage and power here. You need to protect yourself legally. You've done nothing wrong (AFAICT), and yet you've been threatened with expulsion, and now they are attempting to extort you: "provide us with uncompensated labor or we won't let you graduate".

You might even have a criminal complaint around that last bit. Assuming good faith by the university (an entity that has already shown plenty of bad faith) is naive, to say the least.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#585

Post by jccalhoun »

The_suffocated wrote: post #545
jccalhoun wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume it means that at the start of the semester or just days before it starts that if class A and B are both full but I am enrolled in class A but wanted to drop it and get in class B and you are in class B and wanted in class A then we could swap enrollments.

Is this swap recognised by the uni administration? I mean, after the swap, are you officially enrolled in class B?

That's that the poster's app would allow. I assume that right now it is like a seat on a plane or something: If I drop there is an opening and it is first come first serve to fill the slot. So there's no way to assure that you get my old spot. But the poster's app would allow that.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#586

Post by lolinder »

kelnos wrote: post #580
lolinder wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that the dad also gave his son a job at his company while the kid was still in high school. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but it does show that the father is heavily invested in this kid and willing to act affirmatively to give him a leg up, which means I personally would not count this as additional testimony backing up the story. The dad's testimony doesn't make it less likely to be…

I'm pretty sure that the (presumed) father would be heavily invested in his kid, regardless of whether or not he gave him a job while he was in HS. Certainly we should look at someone else's (especially a relative's) corroboration of the story with some skepticism; ideally we could see the emails themselves. But really, OP should contact a lawyer ASAP.

Right, but I do think that the fact that he gave his son a job in high school makes his testimony even more unreliable than a typical parental relationship. Maybe the kid really is that good, but it's more likely that the dad was willing to sacrifice a bit of his company's time to support his son. That's not a decision that every father would make—not even every supportive father—so I think it's relevant here.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#587

Post by kelnos »

bazintastic wrote: post #495
dzdt wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lawyer is NOT the right next step. As soon as you engage a lawyer the school will switch from treating this as a student policy matter (which will be resolved in a timeline of days) to a legal matter (which will only be resolved in a timeline of years). The timeline question is of no concern to the courts or the school but makes a huge difference to you. It does seem like you need someone on your side. A list of pe…

This is the right answer. A large institution like a university is not a monolith. The university will produce antibodies to external participants, like lawyers (or the media). You're most likely to get better outcomes if you can ensure the conflict plays out within the university and its rules, structures, and participants. Your work now is to convince other members of the university to advocate on your behalf. (It…

> You're most likely to get better outcomes if you can ensure the conflict plays out within the university and its rules, structures, and participants.

It's too late for that, even if you're correct here (and I don't think I agree). News of this has already spread, and will continue to spread.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#588

Post by mrguyorama »

charlieyu1 wrote: post #404
isotypic wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can just drop the course - pretty much every university (in the United States, at least) allows students to drop courses one or two weeks into the semester without any record (on say, a transcript). Otherwise students cannot possibly plan their semesters, since courses may not make material available until after the semester actually starts. So if you are planning to sell the slots and it does not work out, you j…

And the slot will be reallocated. I won’t say no harm but you have to be pretty desperate to try to pull this off

"No harm" except for the several slots that were taken up by people hoping to make a quick buck (selling the trade) who drop a day or two into classes and cause the students who actually NEED the class to be very stressed and annoyed and possibly have to adjust their plans because they don't think they will be able to take a class even though it will actually be free by the third time the class meets.

It also just fucks with the University's ability to gauge class interest. In my university, if a class filled up early in the registration window, the University would try to increase capacity or add another copy of the class, but that's not always an option.

A reminder that this is not done for technical reasons. Plenty of colleges all across the US, big and small, custom-built registration software or purchased on the open market, have fully functional waitlist features. "first come first serve" is a policy choice.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#589

Post by pmarreck »

jdkaim wrote: post #7

Update: I immediately took down my class project site after receiving yesterday’s ultimatum. I still don’t think the simple demo site violated the letter or spirit of the registration rules, but I took it down because I always want to operate in good faith. They followed up today to thank me for doing it, but also indicated that they were putting a hold on my account anyway. As a result, I am not going to be able to…

your intuition is correct.

your creativity is correct.

enjoy your spotlight.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#590

Post by kelnos »

diggan wrote: post #441
zonkerdonker wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you had managed to build this system during my time at UW, I know for a fact that I and dozens of other students would have happily paid hundreds of dollars to use your project. The class and reservation system there was (and presumably is?) incredibly broken. I remember literally the only way to get a spot reserved in some /mandatory/ courses was to find an upper classman with prioritized registration dates and a…

> I know for a fact that I and dozens of other students would have happily paid hundreds of dollars to use your project Is this normal in the US, that students have high enough disposable income that they would be able to pay "hundreds of dollars" to use a webapp to swap classes with each other? Or is this school uniquely one for the more well-off kids out there? Remembering my time when my friends were in university…

I haven't been in university in over 20 years, but when I was, I absolutely did not have hundreds of dollars to throw around for things to make my life more convenient. Certainly some of my peers did, but they were not in the majority.
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