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I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

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Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, if he does work for them, he is worth a full time salary for a new software engineer. That is at minimum, he can argue that he is worth a company founder salary.

Founder salaries are generally not high (at least until the company becomes mature). They own a (significant) portion of the company and want to minimize burn.

But when the founder sells and remains working they generally get a good income.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#552
post #7

Update: I immediately took down my class project site after receiving yesterday’s ultimatum. I still don’t think the simple demo site violated the letter or spirit of the registration rules, but I took it down because I always want to operate in good faith. They followed up today to thank me for doing it, but also indicated that they were putting a hold on my account anyway. As a result, I am not going to be able to…

This is bonkers, and sort of smells. I’m not saying you have outright said anything untrue, but there is at least some ambiguity that my mind is filling in, potentially incorrectly. Can you clarify how you got the Swagger files? Were they publicly available? Could you share the exact verbiage they used to seemingly extort labor and intellectual property from you? Does the university have some previously existing (and…

Honestly this. I agree the registrar can be shitbag; but having a method to request token access but also blocking the OP here even though he claims he never actually had real data on his site, but was planning on using the legally-requested-token to populate it in the future? That smells of half the story i think.

My guess being OP was probably running the service for months under-the-radar via scraping prior, and they didn't notice him until he requested the token to help clean up his data. Else they punished him before* he actually did anything wrong? yea, just smells.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#553
post #29

He wasn't disciplined for building an app or fetching data. He was disciplined for blatantly trying to "hack" (in the YC sense, in UW's view) the registration process: https://registrar.washington.edu/winter-2025-registration-ch... "Know that trading, selling, or buying open spots is a breach of the Registration Tampering Abuse Policy. Consequences include referral to the Student Code of Conduct process, a Registrar’…

It sounds like the actual demo site didn't actually interact with the registration system at all. He mentions "fake" classes. That's what he wanted the API token for; that would have allowed him to actually make the site function, and he (falsely) assumed that the documentation meant the university was open to the idea. So while it sounds like his site would almost certainly wound up violating policy had it gone live…

I'm guessing he had been running the 'demo' site for a fair minute using scrapped data; but didn't get noticed/caught until he requested the token.

Still shit to lock him out after he pulled the site down.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#554
post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am not planning to get a lawyer involved as I have faith that UW leadership will make it right in the end. All evidence so far indicates they will not make it right, but instead they may make it even worse. Your faith is wildly misplaced. Seriously, talk to a lawyer. Keep in mind, just because you seek advice from a lawyer doesn't mean you need to take legal action against the school. Talking to a lawyer is not a…

A lawyer is NOT the right next step. As soon as you engage a lawyer the school will switch from treating this as a student policy matter (which will be resolved in a timeline of days) to a legal matter (which will only be resolved in a timeline of years). The timeline question is of no concern to the courts or the school but makes a huge difference to you. It does seem like you need someone on your side. A list of pe…

If they're attempting to extort him, then it's a legal matter whether or not he sees it that way.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#555
post #517

Everyone is saying lawyer up like it's the author's only option, but it's not, and likely bad advice. Here's the order of operations I would take: 1. Mea Culpa Talk to all of the faculty (dean of students, etc) and do your best to get people on your side. You need the petty person on the other end to reverse their decision, and having a lot of administration on your side, and more importantly, expressing (fake) remor…

No one is suggesting to sue. The suggestion is to get advise from a professional, i.e. a lawyer rather to listen to random people on the internet. A lawsuit may or may not follow.

That's true, but it's difficult to envision any scenario where a lawyer supplies the exact advice needed to trigger a reversal outside of threats/suing/arbitration. Maybe if you get a good one I guess, but that is a gamble on its own.

A lawyer supplying helpful information like "Ok, this expulsion was triggered by the Department of Admin, which is overseen by John Smith, who has the power to reverse this decision. Schedule a meeting with him or find office hours to plead your case. I shouldn't get involved outright because it will escalate your situation and be received poorly." is less likely than "I can write a threatening letter and we'll see where it goes". A hammer hammers.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#556
His (presumed) dad commented this on LinkedIn:

> I have seen all the emails now and it's as bad as described. I thought there might be some hyperbole but the "University Registrar and Chief Officer of Enrollment Information Services" is clearly saying "work with us to build this for free or you're not graduating". They even specify that he needs to set up the meeting "well before registration opens on February 13th for spring quarter 2025" because they're not going to let him continue otherwise.

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/edkaim_github-jdkaimhuskyswap...

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#557
post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-transferable class registrations decided by lottery would solve this. Publicly visible, physical random number generation is important of course. With pre-registration you can also get an idea of demand in advance, instead of having to post-hoc schedule additional classes (or concert tour dates, or airline flights, or PS5 units, or… etc.) Non-transferability means the lottery is continuous. As soon as anyone reli…

The idea of transferring registration from one student to another without input from the university is bananas to me. But only slightly more stupid than not having waitlists which is the only reason that exists in the first place. My alma mater let people register in descending order of number of completed credits with a C or better (e.g. 2.0), and then GPA, in waves. Same with dorm sign ups which were required for e…

I really like the point you make about randomness being bad as well, albeit in different ways. I’m not sure if I agree on the prior-grade route, not for freshmen at least but that does make a lot of sense for the later years.

Overall, randomness, like democracy, might be the least worst option.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#558
I am working at a German University on similar systems. I have some thoughts here:

1. The thing you are doing, could provide major value to the university and you did it for free.

2. The fact that you could simply just access that data is a major fuckup on their part that is inexcusable. In my eyes the perdon who walks through an open door is not at fault, the one who left it open is.

If they expell you for that, they do not deserve you.

The first quesrion you should figure out is on whose feet you stepped and why they are butthurt. Simultaneously try to get legal advice and the social/political support of your collegues. If you have a big number of students complaining to the higher ups why your cool service is gone and give them the feeling it is needed, you might even get a cool collab out of that.

Without knowing the details of how US academia operates I would try to maintain a positive angle (you want to help making the university life better), while in privage preparing for the worst.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#559
post #548
post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their response on face value doesn't make sense. But if I had to guess, you inadvertently made someone in the registrar's office look bad. They probably had to answer to "why didn't you think of this?" If that is the case then it makes a lot more sense and is retaliatory behavior. You can't undo their insecurity and loss of face. Therefore you should not expect a reasonable response. Act accordingly. Educate yourself…

Yeah, let me give some perspective here. There's somebody in the registrar's office whose job is to be responsible for the production process of registration. They are minimally staffed and given just enough resources to run that process. Likely at some point their leadership told them they had to make an API so that they could integrate with other systems. Due to poor funding and lack of skills, just doing that is a…

It's really noteworthy that other students have the opportunity to engage in this and other projects as part of their curriculum. They can gain valuable experience while also contributing to the college community. It's disheartening that this situation has led to such drastic measures, impacting students' futures. It seems like there could have been more thoughtful ways to address this on the college's part.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they didn't want people trading registrations why not just... not allow them to trade reservations? I can't trade plane tickets, and that isn't because of some implied threat.

The "trading" is all out of band, the system only sees one person drop their registration and another person fill the slot. When someone drops a class, the opening becomes available immediately, so you coordinate a time well after the registration rush has died down for one person to click "drop" and the other to refresh the page and click "register". At least that's how it worked when I did it 20 years ago. It was r…

polling bots were absolutely common by 2000
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