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VLC tops 6B downloads, previews AI-generated subtitles

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Re: VLC tops 6B downloads, previews AI-generated subtitles

#131

Post by naoru »

xattt wrote: post #115
diggan wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sometimes it's better to paraphrase dialog to reduce the amount of text that needs to be read Please no. Some subtitle companies do think like this, and it's really weird, like when they try to "convert" cultural jokes, and then add in a bunch of more assumptions regarding what cultures you're aware of depending on the subtitle language, making it even harder to understand... Just because I want my subtitles in Eng…

There was an eminent Russian voiceover artist (goblin?) that translated pirated Western movies with his own interpretation. His translations were nowhere near what the movie was about, but they were hilarious and fit the plot perfectly.

Not all of his translations were nowhere near the original. For example, his translation of Guy Ritchie's Snatch was excellent (in my opinion of course) and is still quoted to this day. I'd say it's the only one that absolutely nails it and then some.

On the other hand, his Lord of The Rings was an "alternative" dub as you described. Didn't watch that one though.

Re: VLC tops 6B downloads, previews AI-generated subtitles

#132

Post by thiht »

jl6 wrote: post #52

There's an art to subtitling that goes beyond mere speech-to-text processing. Sometimes it's better to paraphrase dialog to reduce the amount of text that needs to be read. Sometimes you need to name a voice as unknown, to avoid spoilers. Sometimes the positioning on the screen matters. I hope the model can be made to understand all this.

> Sometimes it's better to paraphrase dialog to reduce the amount of text that needs to be read

NO!

I speak and understand 90% of English but I still use subtitles because sometimes I don't understand a word, or the sound sucks, or the actor thought speaking in a very low voice was a good idea. When the subtitles don't match what's being said, it's a terrible experience.

Re: VLC tops 6B downloads, previews AI-generated subtitles

#134

Post by lxgr »

eviks wrote: post #100
lxgr wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re assuming that the subtitle user can hear the voice track here.

Yes I'm, the other option is the "hearing impaired" variant, let that one have all the extra info

I've first hand encountered several situations with subtitles where it would have been ambiguous who was speaking without speaker annotations, despite the voices being distinctive, me being able to hear them clearly etc. Just think of a rapid exchange with neither speaker on-screen for more than two or three sentences and replies.

You can probably get 99% there without that for a lot of content, but I'd challenge the notion that this is somehow only important for hearing impaired viewers (or people just watching without clearly audible sound for other reasons).

Re: VLC tops 6B downloads, previews AI-generated subtitles

#135

Post by eviks »

MindSpunk wrote: post #122
eviks wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> better to paraphrase dialog to reduce the amount of text that needs to be read. That's just bad destructive art, especially for a foreign language that you partially know. > Sometimes you need to name a voice as unknown, to avoid spoilers. Don't name any, that's what your own eye-ear voice recognition/matching and positioning are for (also reduces the amount of text) > Sometimes the positioning on the screen matter…

Subtitles aren't just for foreign viewers though, they're also for native speakers who are now hearing impaired.

Sure, that's what HI version is for

Re: VLC tops 6B downloads, previews AI-generated subtitles

#136

Post by mohamez »

jl6 wrote: post #52

There's an art to subtitling that goes beyond mere speech-to-text processing. Sometimes it's better to paraphrase dialog to reduce the amount of text that needs to be read. Sometimes you need to name a voice as unknown, to avoid spoilers. Sometimes the positioning on the screen matters. I hope the model can be made to understand all this.

This is horrible for people who learn languages using TV Shows and Movies. One of the most frustrating things I've encountered while learning German is the "paraphrase" thing, it makes practicing listening very hard, because my purpose wasn't to understand what was being said, but rather familiarizing my ear with spoken German.

So, knowing exactly the words being said is of utter importance.

Re: VLC tops 6B downloads, previews AI-generated subtitles

#137

Post by close04 »

diggan wrote: post #121
close04 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Spanish food names to be replaced by "kind of the same" British names The purpose of a translation is after all to convey the meaning of what was said. So for example you'd want the English "so so" to be translated in Spanish as "más o menos" instead of repeating the translation of "so" twice. You don't want to just translate word for word, venir infierno o alta agua. A lot of dialog needs language specific context…

> But for example you'd want the English "so so" to be translated in Spanish as "más o menos" instead of doubling down on whatever literal translation for "so" they choose. Agree, but I don't think those are "cultural translations" but more like "idioms translations", which mostly makes sense to do. What I originally wrote about are things like Family Guy original voice-overs + subtitles making a joke about some typi…

I think I've encountered cases like this watching Netflix movies originally in my native language but subtitled in English. But in every case I can remember the substitution made perfect sense.

Without adapting the translation the natives will immediately understand the reference while you, the non-native with no sense of who they're talking about are left wondering what's the real message. Calling someone a "Mother Teresa" might miss the mark somewhere in China. Same if an Italian movie made references to food like Casu Marzo and the average American would probably miss a lot of the context.

Just recently I saw this in a series where some workers in the oil extraction industry were staring at a pan of paella asking what it is and calling it jambalaya. Paella is world famous, how about khash?

That's why I said I understand the usage but it should only be done if it really helps the comprehension, not just the principle of gratuitously adapting to one language.

Re: VLC tops 6B downloads, previews AI-generated subtitles

#138

Post by diggan »

bdndndndbve wrote: post #130
diggan wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sometimes it's better to paraphrase dialog to reduce the amount of text that needs to be read Please no. Some subtitle companies do think like this, and it's really weird, like when they try to "convert" cultural jokes, and then add in a bunch of more assumptions regarding what cultures you're aware of depending on the subtitle language, making it even harder to understand... Just because I want my subtitles in Eng…

It depends on the context! Trying to Americanize Godzilla, for instance, has largely failed because Godzilla is an allegory for the unique horror of nuclear bombing which Japan experienced. Making him just a lizard that walks through New York is kind of stupid. Jokes are an example of something translators can do really well - things like puns don't work 1:1 across languages. A good translator will find a correspondi…

> Jokes are an example of something translators can do really well - things like puns don't work 1:1 across languages. A good translator will find a corresponding, appropriate line of dialogue and basically keep the intent without literally translating the words.

Again, those aren't "cultural translations" but "idioms translations", which I do agree should be translated into something understandable in the language, otherwise you wouldn't understand it.

What I was aiming at in my original comment was examples like these:

> Family Guy original voice-overs + subtitles making a joke about some typical father figure in Hollywood for example. Then the Latin Spanish subtitles will have translated that joke but replaced the specific actor with some typical father figure from the Mexican movie industry, while the Castilian subtitles would have replaced it with someone from the Spanish movie industry.

Re: VLC tops 6B downloads, previews AI-generated subtitles

#139

Post by soco »

lxgr wrote: post #99
eviks wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'd also have to start speaking at the same time and have similar voices to make it tricky

You’re assuming that the subtitle user can hear the voice track here.

Like other commenters pointed out, we are talking two different types of subtitles - those for hearing impaired have very different requirements. I'm not sure which one is VLC gonna cover. Best would be both, just don't mix them up please.

Re: VLC tops 6B downloads, previews AI-generated subtitles

#140

Post by diggan »

close04 wrote: post #137
diggan wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But for example you'd want the English "so so" to be translated in Spanish as "más o menos" instead of doubling down on whatever literal translation for "so" they choose. Agree, but I don't think those are "cultural translations" but more like "idioms translations", which mostly makes sense to do. What I originally wrote about are things like Family Guy original voice-overs + subtitles making a joke about some typi…

I think I've encountered cases like this watching Netflix movies originally in my native language but subtitled in English. But in every case I can remember the substitution made perfect sense. Without adapting the translation the natives will immediately understand the reference while you, the non-native with no sense of who they're talking about are left wondering what's the real message. Calling someone a "Mother…

> Without adapting the translation the natives will immediately understand the reference while you, the non-native with no sense of who they're talking about are left wondering what's the real message. Calling someone a "Mother Teresa" might miss the mark somewhere in China. Same if an Italian movie made references to food like Casu Marzo and the average American would probably miss a lot of the context.

Right, but isn't that why the American is watching this Italian movie anyways, to get a wider understanding of Italian culture? I don't watch foreign movies with the expectation that they're adapted to my local culture, then there wouldn't be much point in watching it.

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