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LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

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Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#381
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deserts are generally uninhabitable by their very nature, but these persistent fires are primarily due to lack of proper underbrush care and other preventative measures. California fires are a classic case of "We tried nothing and we're out of ideas!" , speaking as a former Californian I honestly think the faster solution at this point is for enough of the state to burn down that pretending the problem doesn't exist…

> Deserts are generally uninhabitable by their very nature Deserts don’t have wildfires. (EDIT: They do!)

A lot of the risk in the high desert of the western US is the ubiquitous sagebrush. Old growth sagebrush is basically a short tree and it burns pretty easily and very hot (excellent wood for grilling though). Fortunately, the large plants of the high desert (sagebrush, juniper, etc) grow very slowly.

When lightning or people start a fire in the desert, both relatively rare, they tend to be limited by two things. First, if areas that have been burned out sometime in the last century or two, the plants haven’t grown back enough to really support a proper wildfire, so it is easier to contain. Prior burns are a natural firebreak and they last a really long time. Second, the high desert of the US is an active volcanic province. There are fresh basalt flows everywhere, some less than a thousand years old, in the terrain. It takes tens of thousands of years for these to support enough plant life to carry a burn. These natural barriers place limits on where they can go and how far they can get.

The desert does have fires but they tend to be muted and often self-limiting because large contiguous regions of dense fuel aren’t as common.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#382
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is whether quality of life can be improved in the city with a better allocation of the $2 billion dollars. Some should go to policing, yes, community policing should increase, working the stats should decrease, dedicated mental health professionals should be funded and replace a good number of police interactions, etc. This is a large and complex topic that deserves better than ankle deep engagement.

Red light and speed cameras would do 50x the work that cops are supposed to be doing here and cost substantially less

My idea is to have [optional] speed limiters. The generalized speed limits are very crude. Setting different speed for [small] parts of roads using signs has its limits. We attempt to fix dangerous spots by design, it is a wonderful art but not perfect. You can probably solve a lot of congestion by raising the maximum speed where it makes sense. It also allows for limited control over how many cars try to uses the same road. Traffic jams become bugs. It can log your speed on different roads, if there is a violation it can be treated like a bug too rather than a violation. If you don't have a limiter you can still move along with traffic. If there is a mark on the license plate it is not going to fast.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>very little that can be done in these situations I don't agree with that. People can choose to not live there. There is an entire country to live in and we keep crowding in what seem to the worst places to live and then act surprised when it goes badly. Climate change is going to make some places uninhabitable, that's why we tried to prevent it, but no one cares.

You haven’t been to California right? Weather and location wise, it’s one of the best places in the world to live in

I mean... other than the fires ripping through and destroying everything.....

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#384
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California has a problem with overly aggressive fire suppression over the last 100 years creating a buildup of extra-flammable burnable areas. Literally, you need to let a certain amount of burning go on, continuously over time, so that the burnable areas aren't over-fueled tinderboxes that get very hot, very fast. Part of this is using controlled burns to mitigate the buildup, another thing that's been under-resourc…

That's true in general but not really applicable to these fires. It's mostly chaparral that's burning, and most of the dry brush has built up over only a few years — not 100. We had two years of heavy rains that caused a lot of brush growth, and then this season it all dried out. Controlled burns in that terrain are impractical because there are too many structures nearby and a controlled burn can turn into an uncont…

Interesting. Wikipedia [1] also says that these biomes are supposed to have canopy fires rather than smaller burns. I'm a bit skeptical (seems awefully convenient), but it looks like the 500 year climate record supports this idea [2].

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaparral

[2] https://doi.org/10.1006/qres.1999.2035

If this is the case, then homes in this biome need to be engineered to survive nearby canopy fires every few generations.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> … we keep crowding in what seem to the worst places to live … Malibu? Pacific Palisades? These are among the most pleasant places in the world to live. People are not going to stop wanting to live there — this isn’t a lost cause like a low-lying area exposed to floods. We have to find ways to mitigate the very real fire risk.

Correction: among the most pleasant _when natural wildfires don't burn everything down_. People need to take long-term conditions into account when choosing locations for habitation.

Does anyone do this?

SoCal, NorCal, Seattle - Earthquakes

SoCal, NorCal - Fires

Midwestern States - Tornadoes

North Easy - Blizzards

South Easy - Hurricanes

Which part do you suggest everyone move to?

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#387
post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, I expect there are some foundational differences in world view at play. IMO, its not slavery because it is 100% optional. It is a restricted privilege that prisoners actively seek and compete for. It is sought after because it is an improvement over the alternative. I'm honestly unsure how this can be framed as a negative.

> yeah, I expect there are some foundational differences in world view at play. Agree. I find it fascinating that perspectives can be so different. > It it is sought after because it is an improvement over the alternative. Yep, no objection from me. > I'm honestly unsure how this can be framed as a negative. To me it's the part where prison is apparently even worse than risking your life fighting fires for free. The…

I don't have much skin in this argument but I'll offer one more perspective. Some people enjoy work and some people enjoy risk taking. I have a feeling that are some people in prison that like being badass and the hero and this job seems like an excellent opportunity. Your point that they would rather fight fire than be in prison strikes you as they must really hate prison when some people are just wired differently and may want the risk. Maybe they're just bored in prison.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh, I’m actually surprised a high-risk area is that close to LA. (Santa Monica, no less.)

LA is surrounded by high fire risk areas. The wildfire risk is also really unpredictable. The rule of thumb is the closer you are to the beach, the lower the risk. We were looking to buy a house in Orange or Anaheim Hills because those areas are comparatively affordable. But after the airport fire we steered clear. I took a fire insurance quote on an Orange property, their model says the fire risk is 4 on a scale of…

My sister lives in Anaheim Hills. A couple years ago a brush fire burned right up to the property line behind her house. Fortunately her house was undamaged. Last year the insurance company declined to renew her policy. I think you made a wise choice to avoid that area.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#389
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately there's increasingly few places where natural disasters, of one sort or another, aren't inevitable. The PNW also burns regularly now, never mind the enormous earthquake looming under us that we're terribly unprepared for. Even the northeast is starting to get buried in smoke in the summer and hit by storms like Hurricane Sandy. Tornado Alley knocks out much of the midwest. What's left of the US? Desert…

Phoenix and Tucson are pretty mild for disasters. There are sometimes violent storms in the late summer but nothing that ever rises to the level of requiring evacuation as far as I know. On the other hand, you better hope your AC works in the summer.

Yea, the potential disasters in the south west are mostly man-made in the sense of underinvesting in the electrical grid to make sure the months of 100+ degree high temps don't kill you, or a snap freeze in the winter doesn't take down power either.

The lack of a real need for natural disaster planning feels like it's left local governance complacent about issues that would barely be a problem anywhere else. I know folks in Dallas, Houston, and Austin who have been without power and water longer from a few hours of freezing rain than folks in Florida that got direct hit with a Cat 4 hurricane. There's certainly disasters that you can only do so much prep for, but there's rigor that comes with having to prep for something that generally helps you not totally fall apart when more minor stuff happens.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#390
post #385

After hurricane Andrew Florida changed their building codes to account for hurricanes. But can California do the same for wildfires? Is it even possible to construct fireproof homes? (With stone construction or whatever?)

It’s absolutely possible, at least in theory, but it’s a lot more expensive. Concrete, stucco, brick, and (some types of) cement are fire resistant. Roofs can be made of metal, clay, or (some types of) asphalt.

Not all fire-resistant materials are also earthquake-resistant.

We had roof-mounted sprinklers installed on our house in the Santa Cruz Mountains. We haven’t had to test them in anger so far, but apparently they really work.

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