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Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

nature.com

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Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#361

Post by thereisnospork »

ifyoubuildit wrote: post #315
thereisnospork wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>if you can't tell me specifically how X is bad for youthen I have to assume it is not harmful by default Speaking for myself, its a matter of how my brain works. Setting aside rational considerations like cost-benefit analysis or Bayesian likelihoods: if there isn't a generalizable logic to 'what (is harmful)' and 'how (it is)' I just get a 404. It's not that I don't (or do) believe potatoes chips are harmful it's t…

> As such, any attempt to incorporate that information[0] into my decision making process goes nowhere: I can't categorize a food as to it's degree of ultra processed-ness nor can I assess whether another foods/foods/etc might cause harm like UPF's are purported to do. Ergo: no basis for a behavioral modification, no new pros or cons to weigh. So I guess my question is what are your defaults? What is your unmodified…

I generally choose the tastiest option that works towards what I 'know'[0] about nutrition based on what I've already eaten for the day and what I am planning on eating later. Considerations like 'processedness' or 'organicness' don't enter into it (for the above reasons). Considerations like price and shelf life do, but only casually.

What I 'know' can be more or less completely summed as: I need to eat ~2500 calories per day, +/- 100 calories being 1/35th of a lb or so

I should eat ~1g/kg to 1g/lb lean body mass in protein to avoid losing muscle mass

I need to eat/drink enough salts/electrolytes to replace what is lost through perspiration

I need to eat enough of various micronutrients (e.g. Vitamin C) to avoid specific deficiencies.

[0]My understanding of what has been meaningfully proven/characterized with a 'to me' significant impact/effect.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#362

Post by [deleted] »

addicted wrote: post #272
aziaziazi wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with peers. Doesn’t Keto (for part of the year) worked for millennia for our ancestors?

Most of our ancestors lived a fraction of the lifespans we do. So any argument based on “it worked for our ancestors” is flawed. “It worked for our ancestors” could be the beginning of an idea for research, but certainly does not take you much further than that.

[deleted]

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#364

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

hilbert42 wrote: post #345
rroblak wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. People are getting the message that "sugar is bad" but the public health messaging of "fat is bad" still lingers in many people's heads. It's sad, because as you mentioned some days are indeed essential nutrients. Especially for kids and pregnant women.

"People are getting the message that "sugar is bad" but the public health messaging of "fat is bad" still lingers in many people's heads." If this is true then what the hell is going on? We knew this about sugar with certainly at absolute minimum a half century ago when I was a kid (I know as I remember the message). The message—even as told at school—was that 'excessive and repeated amounts of sugar (especially the…

The sugar industry spent a lot of money on PR to shift the blame to fat.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493739074...

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-co...

Also, it's "obvious" (but completely wrong) that if you don't want to be fat, you shouldn't eat fat.

So "low-fat" products were (still are...) sold as a "diet" option. In fact processed carbs, and sugar in particular, are a far more direct cause of weight gain.

Fats do contribute to weight gain, but they're much more complicated. Sat vs unsat, trans vs ordinary, and so on all have very different health effects.

Put directly, the sugar industry lied and is now responsible for tens of millions of deaths.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#365

Post by presentation »

johnyzee wrote: post #309
athenot wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About 15 years ago, I stopped drinking soda. Not out of a desire to be healthy or loose weight but simply because it dawned on me that for the same amount of sugar in one soft drink that I drink without any afterthought, I could enjoy a really good pastry that I can slowly savor. I do the same for fats. The way I look at it, I want to maximize the "enjoyment per kcalorie". :) More recently, I'm starting to apply this…

>I do the same for fats. The way I look at it, I want to maximize the "enjoyment per kcalorie". :) We are increasingly moving away from looking at fat as an indulgence, towards understanding it as an essential nutrient, with a large variance in fat types and their benefits. E.g. some people would avoid eating nuts, because they are high in fat, and not as tasty as something similarly fatty, like a pastry. This seems…

I mostly avoid nuts because they’re so tasty I overconsume them every time. Those things pack a lot of calories into a small package!

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#366

Post by lm28469 »

greenie_beans wrote: post #343
lm28469 wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The human experience is all about controlling your urges. I also like to eat until I feel stuffed and sleep 12 hours a day, but I don't because I value my long term health above short term pleasures. Sadly for us modern life is all about short term pleasures and convenience, if you're not careful you can lose yourself real quick Try sparkling water, home made water kefir, herbal teas, &c.

why are you lecturing somebody on the internet about personal lifestyle choices? as if the whole world doesn't know what they consume can negatively affect their health...

> as if the whole world doesn't know what they consume can negatively affect their health..

Most people just don't... my 60+ father in law was trying to lose weight for years, after a long talk we came to the conclusion that he didn't know what a calorie was, why sugar was bad, why "dried fruits" don't count as "fruits" when your doctor recommends XXX grammes of fruits per day, why starting your day with a liter of tea with 50g of sugar wasn't helping. He went from 120kg to 90kg in a year and is healthier than he was 15 years ago.

My mom told me she had enough protein for the day after eating a single chicken thigh. My dad says he's active enough even though his phones counts about 2k steps per day on average...

What's your view ? People get fat, age terribly and die as a result of a conscious decision process in which they arrive to the conclusion that losing their limbs to diabetes is OK because Coke tastes good ? It's even more condescending than my take because it makes them plain dumb instead of simply ignorants

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#367

Post by lm28469 »

gigatexal wrote: post #354
greenie_beans wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why are you lecturing somebody on the internet about personal lifestyle choices? as if the whole world doesn't know what they consume can negatively affect their health...

Real condescending dad energy right?

Right, because assuming people willingly get fat as fuck and die early of heart failure is not lmao

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#368

Post by looofooo0 »

tacker2000 wrote: post #348
looofooo0 wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Artifical sweeterner are pretty safe, go for it.

Not true, artificial sweeteners lead to the same addiction effects as sugar. There was some paper about this recently. Also is is not entirely researched what these artificial sweeteners really do to your body if consumed over long periods of time.

So what is your point? Don't see any unsafe point, NHS agrees:

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/food-types/are-sweeten...

Many sweeteners are around for decades, better than sugary drinks for sure.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#369

Post by devmor »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #332
Zobat wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The diabetics I know say OJ is worse than (sugared) sodas.

Maybe because they can drink it faster. Glycmic index's and the equivalent index's around insulin response are literally the gold standard for deciding what's okay to eat. "Vibes" or "My opinions" do not matter. OJ is marginally "healthier", significantly because the fiber in the drink (more pulp the better) slows down (slightly) the insulin and glycemic responses. Source: Family of diabetics who have actually lost l…

I have no idea if this might be related, but citric acid is known to speed up mixed absorption of non-protein sources by inhibiting proteolytic enzymes in the digestive tract (it is even used in some medicines that require faster absorption because of this).

To that effect, perhaps the glucose in OJ is absorbed faster than the glucose in other SSBs specifically when consumed with other foods, leading to this anecdotal understanding that OJ is "worse" than other SSBs among diabetics?

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#370

Post by greenie_beans »

lm28469 wrote: post #366
greenie_beans wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why are you lecturing somebody on the internet about personal lifestyle choices? as if the whole world doesn't know what they consume can negatively affect their health...

> as if the whole world doesn't know what they consume can negatively affect their health.. Most people just don't... my 60+ father in law was trying to lose weight for years, after a long talk we came to the conclusion that he didn't know what a calorie was, why sugar was bad, why "dried fruits" don't count as "fruits" when your doctor recommends XXX grammes of fruits per day, why starting your day with a liter of t…

thank you for your outlier anecdote. i don't know anybody who doesn't know sugar is bad for them. i've been sitting on a sidewalk smoking a cigarette and a stranger told me that it will kill me. the fuck? like i don't know that.

> What's your view ? People get fat, age terribly and die as a result of a conscious decision process in which they arrive to the conclusion that losing their limbs to diabetes is OK because Coke tastes good ?

that's crazy anybody would ever think that, let alone me, who never said that.

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