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LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

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Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#351

Post by liontwist »

rayiner wrote: post #270
defrost wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone tweeted $23 million .. your linked article (thank you for source) follows that with: City budget documents show the department’s more than $800 million budget decreased by around $17 million compared to the previous budget cycle. Which makes the cuts less than %2.12 "Gutted" as a descripter seems extreme and the details that matter are whether these reductions simply trimmed fat, or denied something essential…

That’s on top of about 3.4% inflation from 2023 to 2024. So over a 5% cut in real terms.

Actually we don’t have that information. Often when governments talk about budget cuts they already are pricing it in real terms, or against projected budget increase.

Unfortunately we have a news article reporting a tweet.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#352

Post by unethical_ban »

svnt wrote: post #253
arcticbull wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not informed on the specifics on these cases, but I generally view that (many/most) prisoners have a debt to society for breaking the social contract and serving the community by making it safer is a generally positive activity. Yes -- but -- by undercutting the wages you would have to pay people outside, it lowers the pay of the non-prison laborers. This hurts that community. You can achieve the same result by…

> You can achieve the same result by paying them prevailing wage. This has the extra benefit of giving them some saved up money to start a new life when they get out, helping them avoid falling back into a life of crime to make ends meet. I don’t see how you can do this, because you turn punishment into privilege. If the way to firefighter pay is through a jail cell you create all kind of problems around perverse inc…

And if the way to cheap labor for risky, highly needed manual labor is through incarcerating people, you create all kind of problems around perverse incentives.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#353

Post by throwup238 »

culi wrote: post #264
bloudermilk wrote: post #170

We lost our house to the Eaton fire this morning. It’s difficult to describe the vastness of the destruction in our community. Everything within a couple square miles of us burned.

I'm sorry for your loss. Are you lucky enough to be in a place where insurers in California are still operating? Hopefully you can at least get financial situation taken off your mind

> Are you lucky enough to be in a place where insurers in California are still operating?

California has had a state fire insurer (FAIR) of last resort for over fifty years and fire insurance is practically mandatory for mortgages so there aren’t many places that are excluded.

It’s entirely funded by premiums and has never been bailed out by state or federal funds. It’s not like the National Insurance Flood Program that’s burned billions of dollars in federal funding to subsidize people living in flood plains and Florida.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#354

Post by proc0 »

anon291 wrote: post #287

California has a long history of failed forest management. At what point will the voters say enough is enough? But they keep electing the same people. https://www.npr.org/2021/06/25/1010382535/gavin-newsom-misle...

People are blaming it on climate change, and making excuses for the state's management. When you point this out they get angry or passive aggressive like you are some kind of evil person like those evil republicans. It's unbelievable really.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#355

Post by zamalek »

jarsin wrote: post #276

Now they are saying another fire broke out near hollywood hills. If winds don't stop how much worse can this get? Sixth fire: A new brush fire called the Sunset Fire broke out in the Hollywood Hills near Runyon Canyon Wednesday evening. A mandatory evacuation order is in place for Laurel Canyon Boulevard (on the west) to Mulholland Drive (on the north) to 101 Freeway (on the east) down to Hollywood Boulevard (on the…

> how much worse can this get?

We have a climate change denier going into office, so we're going to find out.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#356

Post by lend000 »

This saga has led me to do some research on the state of modern firefighting. From what I've gathered, we're still using the same methods (more or less) we've been using since the 1960's when Phos-Chek was introduced. There have been significant improvements in information (locating fires early with satellites and drones as such), which is no doubt valuable, but I was underwhelmed by the lack of advancements in actually putting out an aggressive fire. Perhaps someone who knows the state of the art can correct me.

However, I feel like there are some startup opportunities here, either for endpoint structure defense or firefighting equipment. There is a real need that will likely continue to grow over time.

Some things that came to mind: - Easily deployable, compressed CO2 canisters coordinated to smother fires from crossing strategic lines e.g. at a fire road on a ridge - More effective use of high powered drones for firefighting delivery - Use of special explosives or projectiles in remote / inaccessible terrain *yes, this comes with major caveats - Has materials science advanced to the point where we can launch reusable tarps on fires to smother them?

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#357

Post by svnt »

saagarjha wrote: post #337
svnt wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried? Do you have your certs? Would you pass the physical? Background check?

I mean if your concern is "people in prison have an easier path to being a firefighter" maybe we should reconsider what it means to be one?

My concern only becomes an issue if prisons put them on parity with actual trained firefighters (as was being suggested, but is not the case). Presently they are not, and they are not used that way. They usually do not do the same types or level of work.

I think the first step is people educating themselves even marginally on the topic of discussion before proposing policy changes.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#358

Post by svnt »

unethical_ban wrote: post #352
svnt wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can achieve the same result by paying them prevailing wage. This has the extra benefit of giving them some saved up money to start a new life when they get out, helping them avoid falling back into a life of crime to make ends meet. I don’t see how you can do this, because you turn punishment into privilege. If the way to firefighter pay is through a jail cell you create all kind of problems around perverse inc…

And if the way to cheap labor for risky, highly needed manual labor is through incarcerating people, you create all kind of problems around perverse incentives.

Yes, unless it is voluntary, which it is.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#359

Post by mulmen »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #340
mulmen wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's one of the most sought after opportunities in prison. "In prison" is doing a lot of work there. > And the state can't afford to pay them fully. Then the state can't afford to be on fire. An externality that isn't accounted for. > Considering they want to do it, and the state already pays a huge amount to house prisoners, its not that insane. I'm really shocked to hear someone just casually say slavery in the U…

yeah, I expect there are some foundational differences in world view at play. IMO, its not slavery because it is 100% optional. It is a restricted privilege that prisoners actively seek and compete for. It is sought after because it is an improvement over the alternative. I'm honestly unsure how this can be framed as a negative.

> yeah, I expect there are some foundational differences in world view at play.

Agree. I find it fascinating that perspectives can be so different.

> It it is sought after because it is an improvement over the alternative.

Yep, no objection from me.

> I'm honestly unsure how this can be framed as a negative.

To me it's the part where prison is apparently even worse than risking your life fighting fires for free.

The incentives here are perverse. The worse prison conditions are the more "appealing" still-awful conditions become. Access to free labor creates an incentive for the state to create more of that labor. Rehabilitation becomes a threat to the practitioners.

I think the biggest difference is that you believe there is a choice and I don't think that choice is meaningful.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#360

Post by radicaldreamer »

linotype wrote: post #303
bloudermilk wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only guidance I’ve heard so far is that the shelters are in need of bedding. Neither of the press briefings today offered more opportunities for support.

Where the hell is Karen Bass? Our government?

She just got back from Ghana: https://x.com/skynews/status/1877115173443400065?s=12
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