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LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

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Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#181

Post by kristjansson »

segasaturn wrote: post #126
ChrisClark wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2% means gutted? 2% less funding means only a skeleton crew is left?

The city of Los Angeles and the Mayor have been requesting volunteers from the public, due to lack of manpower. According to their website [1] the salary for firefighters in Los Angeles is $85,000 to $125,000 (rounded). Assuming the average ($105,000), that amount of funding could have paid 161 firefighters salaries for the entire year, not including benefits (unsure how that is priced in), and much more than that if…

> The city of Los Angeles and the Mayor have been requesting volunteers from the public

That's not true. The call last night was for all off-duty firefighters to report their availability, not for members of the public.

Clearly LAFD / LACFD need more manpower, but there's more then enough merit to make that case without misinformation.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#182

Post by scottyah »

segasaturn wrote: post #145
nradov wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which other fat targets should local governments cut? Please be specific and quantitative.

Great question, lets take a look at the 2024-2025 budget sheet for LA City: https://cao.lacity.gov/budget/summary/2024-25%20Budget%20Sum... (This PDF is great, props to whoever made it for making it so easy and accessible for normal people to read.) If you look at the pie chart on Page 11, you will see that by far the largest slice of the pie is the police budget. It's 45% of LA County's entire budget, totalling almo…

Most of it is in liability payouts. The LA City Controller has a fantastic instagram account and website https://controller.lacity.gov/

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#183

Post by arcticbull »

hx8 wrote: post #155
arcticbull wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slave labor (which is permitted under the 13th amendment as punishment for a crime) undercuts the wages that you would pay in the market hurting both the prisoners (as they aren't paid appropriately or given appropriate medical care for injuries, etc) and the would-be non-prison firefighters. Worse, you generally can't be a firefighter once you get out of prison as they don't hire ex-convicts. Consequently you're not…

I'm not informed on the specifics on these cases, but I generally view that (many/most) prisoners have a debt to society for breaking the social contract and serving the community by making it safer is a generally positive activity. I'm happy to adjust my opinion on this topic if provided evidence that inmate firefighters either are unsafe for the community or have worse outcomes than other inmates.

> I'm not informed on the specifics on these cases, but I generally view that (many/most) prisoners have a debt to society for breaking the social contract and serving the community by making it safer is a generally positive activity.

Yes -- but -- by undercutting the wages you would have to pay people outside, it lowers the pay of the non-prison laborers. This hurts that community.

You can achieve the same result by paying them prevailing wage. This has the extra benefit of giving them some saved up money to start a new life when they get out, helping them avoid falling back into a life of crime to make ends meet.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#184

Post by majormajor »

ravenstine wrote: post #88
segasaturn wrote: post #51

Los Angeles Fire Department funding was cut by over $23M only a few months ago. The fires are currently being fought by a skeleton crew of remaining fire fighters and volunteers. Can't say if that funding would have prevented it, but cutting it definitely has not helped. Source: https://www.politico.com/news/2025/01/08/los-angeles-fires-m... Edit: Changing a word, "gutted" -> "cut"

I really don't understand how SoCal and California residents in general find the the state's response to wildfires in the last decade to be acceptable. Not only have fire departments seen cutbacks, but so has the forestry needed for preventative measures. What really bugs me is what I find to be a disinterest and lack of belief in vastly expanding the fleet of water dropping aircraft. Letting fires burn to the extent…

How much water do you need to dump enough to saturate all the territory that would need to be covered with wind gusts up to 100MPH? (How do you fly and aim the water in those winds?)

Wildfires are obviously not new, if you're saying the fault is of the administration of the last 10 years, how do you explain that the earlier government for the fifty years prior ALSO failed to see and implement your "just dump the water everywhere from planes" approach to the fires in the 90s, say?

We're, what, 13 years from terrible financials for the state and local governments that forced widespread major cuts and furloughs and reduction in hours? Everyone who's been hit by those can point to negative outcomes somewhere or other (crime is up! education achievement stats are down! wait times are up! etc) but there's no free lunch here to just have avoided any cutbacks in any area.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#186

Post by John23832 »

MomsAVoxell wrote: post #148
bragr wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a good view of the smoke column from Brentwood. I've also never seen a fire spread that fast. Same thing, in about an hour it went from a small fire to the smoke blocking out the sun. As a testament to the speed of the winds, I've never seen a smoke column visually move so quickly. Usually at that size and distance, they feel more like static objects. Edit: I'm preparing to evacuate tonight in case the order c…

[flagged]

This tidbit does nothing for the people experiencing loss at the moment.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#187

Post by Roguelazer »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #129
rvnx wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Very interesting info you found!) It seems to be a great way to reengage in the community and feel useful as a human being (and see people being grateful to you). Not so sure the $5 are the driver here. Better than watching a cellmate all day.

I wonder if they have favorable consideration when applying to fire departments after they get out.

As I understand it, no. Most counties require that you have an EMT license to be a firefighter, and many people with conviction histories are barred from getting EMT licenses (Title 22 § 100214.3(c)). There was a bill a few years ago that allowed CalFire specifically to hire people as firefighters with an alternate credential that doesn't have a blanket-ban on people with conviction histories.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#188

Post by majormajor »

segasaturn wrote: post #145
nradov wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which other fat targets should local governments cut? Please be specific and quantitative.

Great question, lets take a look at the 2024-2025 budget sheet for LA City: https://cao.lacity.gov/budget/summary/2024-25%20Budget%20Sum... (This PDF is great, props to whoever made it for making it so easy and accessible for normal people to read.) If you look at the pie chart on Page 11, you will see that by far the largest slice of the pie is the police budget. It's 45% of LA County's entire budget, totalling almo…

So the police budget is 2B.

The fire budget is ~800M. Pretty significant by itself.

You keep throwing around this 23M number like a 3% change would make a material impact on 3 fast-spreading huge fires in worst-case-scenario conditions.

What do you think the budget would need to be to handle this? In a scenario that goes deep, such as how water pressure is low because of how much demand is coming from so many hydrants? 100M more? 200M? 500M? 1B?

Is committing to that much more annually the best solution here?

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#189

Post by bamboozled »

proc0 wrote: post #177
mempko wrote: post #82

Global warming doing it's thing.

'It will continue to happen until people realize the true root cause which is bad leadership... or continue blaming "climate change" and giving up because we're not changing how much China pollutes the air anytime soon. I would rather at least elect better leaders who have their priorities in order.

So you're saying you want leaders who address climate change. Bad leaders exacerbate climate change.

As the planet becomes hotter and drier, you will see more fires, unless you address climate change.

China makes all your stuff, including bibles, that's why there is more air pollution there. China is rapidly expanding it's renewables deployment and that will improve their air quality and resilience..

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