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LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

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Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#251

Post by llamaimperative »

mulmen wrote: post #237
llamaimperative wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why did no one warn us every minute of every day for the last 10 years?! But fret not, the right wing on Twitter is taking to blaming a minuscule water diversion to protect an endangered fish for the hydrants running dry. Not the fact that we built a sprawling megalopolis with ultra-expensive infrastructure maintenance costs... in a desert... where we use the vast majority of local water to feed cows...

10 years? An Inconvenient Truth came out in 2006, that's nearly two decades and Gore didn't invent climate change any more than he invented the Internet.

Time flies when you’re having fun!

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#253

Post by svnt »

arcticbull wrote: post #183
hx8 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not informed on the specifics on these cases, but I generally view that (many/most) prisoners have a debt to society for breaking the social contract and serving the community by making it safer is a generally positive activity. I'm happy to adjust my opinion on this topic if provided evidence that inmate firefighters either are unsafe for the community or have worse outcomes than other inmates.

> I'm not informed on the specifics on these cases, but I generally view that (many/most) prisoners have a debt to society for breaking the social contract and serving the community by making it safer is a generally positive activity. Yes -- but -- by undercutting the wages you would have to pay people outside, it lowers the pay of the non-prison laborers. This hurts that community. You can achieve the same result by…

> You can achieve the same result by paying them prevailing wage. This has the extra benefit of giving them some saved up money to start a new life when they get out, helping them avoid falling back into a life of crime to make ends meet.

I don’t see how you can do this, because you turn punishment into privilege. If the way to firefighter pay is through a jail cell you create all kind of problems around perverse incentives.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#254

Post by joe_the_user »

throwaway249281 wrote: post #115

There's a lot of fingerpointing but as Daniel Swain put it: 1. This was completely expected and forecasted both short and long term by regional climate and weather experts. Two very wet winters caused fuel buildup followed by an extremely hot and dry year. 2. There is very little that can be done in these situations. 100 mph gusts of embers can't be fought with hoses and air attack isn't possible in high winds. 3. Ha…

Two very wet winters caused fuel buildup followed by an extremely hot and dry year.

References for the "hot and dry year" ('cause I hear it tossed around a lot). As far as I can tell, all of California had several relatively wet (but hot) years and nothing dry afterwards. I'm linking to NOAA's the California drought map, which shows "Abnormally Dry" (less than "moderate drought") for LA currently and I think showed "none" for much of the year [1].

The thing is, I agree this was to be expected. But only by the principle "climate change is going to cause disaster out of nowhere". We need to say this and let people understand.

[1] https://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/CurrentMap/StateDroughtMonito...

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#255

Post by jeffbee »

segasaturn wrote: post #51

Los Angeles Fire Department funding was cut by over $23M only a few months ago. The fires are currently being fought by a skeleton crew of remaining fire fighters and volunteers. Can't say if that funding would have prevented it, but cutting it definitely has not helped. Source: https://www.politico.com/news/2025/01/08/los-angeles-fires-m... Edit: Changing a word, "gutted" -> "cut"

There is no meaningful sense in which firefighters are "fighting" this fire, nor could they.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#256

Post by Rebelgecko »

kamikazeturtles wrote: post #192

> The National Guard - along with thousands of firefighters (many of them prisoners working for $10 a day or less) - have been deployed to help tackle the conflagration. I hope their compensation is a little more than $10 a day! By the looks of the fire, those guys/gals are heros.

There was a ballot proposition to increase imprisoned firefighter compensation in November but it failed 47/53

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#257

Post by thepasswordis »

timeon wrote: post #130
segasaturn wrote: post #51

Los Angeles Fire Department funding was cut by over $23M only a few months ago. The fires are currently being fought by a skeleton crew of remaining fire fighters and volunteers. Can't say if that funding would have prevented it, but cutting it definitely has not helped. Source: https://www.politico.com/news/2025/01/08/los-angeles-fires-m... Edit: Changing a word, "gutted" -> "cut"

I would be more concerned about Climate Change. No amount of money will help.

Never allowing the forest to burn, which is a part of its natural cycle, is a form a drastic climate change for the forest.

Proper management of the forest means selecting a time to do these burns. If we don't select a time, mother nature will select one for us.

Yes, global temperature rise is real, and could potentially have had some effect on the fire. Completely disrupting the natural cycle of the forest is a much bigger deal.

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#259

Post by [deleted] »

throwup238 wrote: post #246
mulmen wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still uneasy about it. They're in a vulnerable position and the alternative is unpleasant because of the same people offering the "opportunity". The pay is only legal because they're prisoners. If it was a fair wage I'd be more comfortable although still uneasy.

Almost everyone in California felt uneasy about it after the 2018-2020 fires. In 2021 the governor signed a retroactive law that allowed nonviolent offenders serving less than 8 years to expunge their records if they served as firefighters while incarcerated. I’d prefer they get paid at least minimum wage anyway, but they’re better off than most other prisoners because the expungement means their background checks ca…

[deleted]

Re: LA wildfires force thousands to evacuate, NASA JPL closed

#260

Post by CapricornNoble »

defrost wrote: post #66
segasaturn wrote: post #51

Los Angeles Fire Department funding was cut by over $23M only a few months ago. The fires are currently being fought by a skeleton crew of remaining fire fighters and volunteers. Can't say if that funding would have prevented it, but cutting it definitely has not helped. Source: https://www.politico.com/news/2025/01/08/los-angeles-fires-m... Edit: Changing a word, "gutted" -> "cut"

Someone tweeted $23 million .. your linked article (thank you for source) follows that with: City budget documents show the department’s more than $800 million budget decreased by around $17 million compared to the previous budget cycle. Which makes the cuts less than %2.12 "Gutted" as a descripter seems extreme and the details that matter are whether these reductions simply trimmed fat, or denied something essential…

Regarding what was actually cut, do the cuts include the firefighting equipment sent to Ukraine? Sounds like that was mostly hoses and extra PPE, not major force-multiplier systems needed for this type of fire: https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/vital-la-firefighting...

And why is there apparently no water in the fire hydrants? Something about the reservoir not being refilled appropriately?

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