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You can't optimize your way to being a good person

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Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#141

Post by edanm »

mcmcmc wrote: post #86
gitpusher wrote: post #23

If you spend all your time worrying about how to be a good person, chances are you're not being a good person. Just go do nice things. Volunteer somewhere. Be of service. And stop worrying so much

This is where most effective altruism people go wrong. All the money in the world won’t fix anything if no one acts on the problem.

Most effective altruism people very specifically put money in places that are doing things and can prove they are effective.

So no, I don't think this is where a lot of EAs go wrong.

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#142

Post by edanm »

gitpusher wrote: post #23

If you spend all your time worrying about how to be a good person, chances are you're not being a good person. Just go do nice things. Volunteer somewhere. Be of service. And stop worrying so much

I'm somewhat certain that people who worry about whether they're good people are usually better than people who don't think much about it.

I've not met many people who thoughtfully engage with the question of how to live a moral life, only to just not put any of it into practice. I've met plenty of people who barely think about it, and don't consider it a question of much interest.

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#144

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

physicles wrote: post #139
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last Saturday, myself and two other firefighters managed to find a woman lost in a maze of 40+ miles of trails. Her hip had dislocated, she could not move. The temperatures were in the upper 20s (F) (-3C or so) with serious windchill amidst 35mph/56kph wind gusts. It was extremely dark. We stayed with her and tried to keep her as warm as possible until a UTV arrived to extricate her. I was home by 01:00, after 4hrs o…

Wouldn’t she have died from exposure if you hadn’t found her? There’s a beautiful quote from a 2019 episode of the podcast The Anthropocene Reviewed, Auld Lang Syne. John Green recounts some advice he got while in college and working as a chaplain at a children’s hospital: “Don’t just do something. Stand there.”

The FF/EMT who was on our team of 3 felt that she was likely 2hrs from hypothermic death. How accurate that is, I don't know. But basically, yes, she would have died if not found.

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#145

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

JackMorgan wrote: post #138
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last Saturday, myself and two other firefighters managed to find a woman lost in a maze of 40+ miles of trails. Her hip had dislocated, she could not move. The temperatures were in the upper 20s (F) (-3C or so) with serious windchill amidst 35mph/56kph wind gusts. It was extremely dark. We stayed with her and tried to keep her as warm as possible until a UTV arrived to extricate her. I was home by 01:00, after 4hrs o…

That is a epic story. What gear were you in, were you in structural gear or something else? Just the thought of hiking in my structural gear gives me blisters.

No structural gear for 2 of the 3 of us. I had civilian gear on other than my EMS jacket which despite not being "proper outdoor gear" is insanly warm. Thankfully I had also layered a merino wool base layer and my RAB thinsulate-y puffer jacket under that, REI expedition gloves and two layers of hats. One of my colleagues did not do so well, and was really inadequately dressed given that we had to strip down a bit to keep her warm. The 3rd person on the team wore his structural jacket and wildland helmet.

The UTV1 crew had their structural jackets on, but otherwise civilian.

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#146

Post by moralestapia »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #85
gitpusher wrote: post #23

If you spend all your time worrying about how to be a good person, chances are you're not being a good person. Just go do nice things. Volunteer somewhere. Be of service. And stop worrying so much

Last Saturday, myself and two other firefighters managed to find a woman lost in a maze of 40+ miles of trails. Her hip had dislocated, she could not move. The temperatures were in the upper 20s (F) (-3C or so) with serious windchill amidst 35mph/56kph wind gusts. It was extremely dark. We stayed with her and tried to keep her as warm as possible until a UTV arrived to extricate her. I was home by 01:00, after 4hrs o…

Woooooooooowwww

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#147

Post by rurp »

jimt1234 wrote: post #33
gitpusher wrote: post #23

If you spend all your time worrying about how to be a good person, chances are you're not being a good person. Just go do nice things. Volunteer somewhere. Be of service. And stop worrying so much

100% ... In my life, I accepted a while back that I don't have to solve world hunger or cure cancer in order to be a good person - just be as courteous to others as I can; focus on the little things. For example, I always park my car in the back of parking lots (or otherwise far away) because I'm perfectly capable of walking, while others might struggle. Is that gonna get me a Nobel prize? Certainly not. But I like t…

This is a good habit for any able bodied person to get into. Not only can it help out someone who needs a closer spot, it doesn't even cost you time on average since you're less likely to be held up by traffic getting in or out of the spot. Plus adding a little more walking into the day is healthy.

I always shake my head at healthy people who block the traffic lane for minutes waiting for someone to load groceries and free up a specific spot, when there are dozens of open spots 40 ft away. Their laziness isn't even saving them any time or aggravation.

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#148

Post by justin66 »

alganet wrote: post #46
tombert wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been accused of having "pathological empathy" before [1], and to this day I refuse to accept that empathy is a weakness. Being able to fairly easily put myself in someone else's shoes is pretty much the only thing I actually like about myself. I feel like part of what defines us as a species is learning how to understand people who do not deserve us to understand them. In 2023 my iPhone was stolen (story is pare…

> I refuse to accept that empathy is a weakness. It is not. But also, empathy is not the same thing as kindness. Empathy, as you mentioned, is the ability to put oneself in someone else's shoes. To imagine what is like to be other. Fraudsters, cheaters, psycopaths. All of these are great empaths. They understand others in a deep level. But they're not kind, they are ruthless. > I feel like part of what defines us as…

> Fraudsters, cheaters, psycopaths. All of these are great empaths. They understand others in a deep level.

No, psychopathy is clinically defined in part by a lack of empathy.

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#149

Post by atmosx »

theonething wrote: post #124
hackable_sand wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds bad because the root comment is priming a negative perspective of the world. They could have said: "Most people are kind. Be kind and most people will be kind back." Or something with positive intent. Instead they seem to be priming a superiority trip.

Agreed. Or they could said: "Be kind because it's the right thing to do."

This. This is good enough reason to be kind. So let’s do that :-)

Re: You can't optimize your way to being a good person

#150

Post by rawgabbit »

bentt wrote: post #119

I was raised very loosely Lutheran (Christian). We barely went to church and stopped entirely after I was confirmed. I practice it exactly 0% now and have never in my adult life. However I feel like something got cooked into me, and maybe even my parents, that gives me a bit of guidance here. I can't explain it but I feel like I have a foundation that is preventing me from feeling the empty nihilism that plagues a lo…

Christianity teaches we are all children of God, brothers and sisters with equal dignity and respect and heirs to a heavenly kingdom.

We reject the Trolley problem. We reject the idea of starving sailors on a deserted island should draw lots and eat one of their own.

To argue otherwise is to agree with what we decried about ancient societies. Sacrificing children/prisoners/slaves to Moloch for own benefit is the sure path to hell.

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