Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

techli.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 166 posts

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#121

Post by rmc »

mibbitier wrote: post #66
natrius wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal of this program isn't to fix racism or sexism. It's to encourage a group of people to explore programming who do so at lower a rate than many other groups. If the talents and desires needed to program are evenly distributed among the population, this is a targeted way to improve the lives of people who wouldn't discover programming on their own. A program that wasn't narrowly targeted would have a lower retu…

And that's fine. But you can't have it both ways... If you believe in free speech, you have to accept people saying things you don't like. If you believe in freedom to set criteria on who you accept for something, you should also accept "white men only private clubs" etc.

This is not an either/or, black/white situation. It's not just A or B. There are lots of options here. Don't pretend there are only 2 options.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#122

Post by jbattle »

rmc wrote: post #109
tysonjennings wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not arguing that blacks are "stupid" because they are poor. It astounds me that you would misinterpret my words so grossly.

Eh, yes you did: What's the poorest country in the western hemisphere? Haiti. What makes it "special"? Now, what's the poorest most impoverished continent in the world? Africa. What makes it "special"? I think you get the picture. You implied "poverty, ergo stupidity"

I'm pretty sure he stated, not implied, that "blacks" are untermenschen

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#123

Post by rmc »

JPKab wrote: post #22
peterwwillis wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're saying that charities should do a breakdown of all the demographics in a given area, and spend exactly the same resources on getting them all help? I wasn't aware that charities and non-profits were supposed to be so generalized. I thought targeting specific issues was part of the point, to have a greater chance at solving at least one problem. The net effect of this organization's efforts will be to elevat…

There should be zero targeting of ethnicity. Excluding people based on ethnicity is wrong, no matter what the ethnic group is. And what makes you so sure that black men would relate to black women better than they would men of other ethnic backgrounds? Which is the bigger divider, gender or ethnicity? The point I am making isn't that this isn't a good thing, because as I said in my original post, helping any disadvan…

Excluding people based on ethnicity is wrong, no matter what the ethnic group is.

I disagree. In an ideal world, yes you're right. But that's not reality. In this world, it's OK. It's good and moral to try to eliminate the inherent disadvantages that some groups have. It's better in the long term. This is the right thing to do.

it's ok to discriminate based on race as long as it isn't favoring whites.

Pretty much yes. Non-whites have much less power, ergo they need it.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#124

Post by rmc »

cschmidt wrote: post #54

Wow, such a lot of negative comments. HN really sounds mean sometimes. Sure, it is a charity program targeting a specific group of people. But that's true of essentially all charities. The Boy Scouts only help boys, PyLadies only teaches women to program in Python, the The Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria doesn't help people with cancer. The organizers are adding to the social good and helping a de…

The Boy Scouts only help boys

And only straight boys! No gays allowed there (in general).

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#125

Post by nollidge »

mibbitier wrote: post #66
natrius wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal of this program isn't to fix racism or sexism. It's to encourage a group of people to explore programming who do so at lower a rate than many other groups. If the talents and desires needed to program are evenly distributed among the population, this is a targeted way to improve the lives of people who wouldn't discover programming on their own. A program that wasn't narrowly targeted would have a lower retu…

And that's fine. But you can't have it both ways... If you believe in free speech, you have to accept people saying things you don't like. If you believe in freedom to set criteria on who you accept for something, you should also accept "white men only private clubs" etc.

Nobody wants it both ways here. I do accept "white men only private clubs". I think they're shitty and absurd, but so be it, it's a free country.

I'm not sure what you're arguing against. Nobody said they're excluding non-blacks or non-girls. Maybe they would, and I would definitely disagree with that. What they are doing is focusing their attention on black girls. Other children are not being disadvantaged in the process just because there isn't a group that caters specifically to their demographic.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#126

Post by grannyg00se »

mrmusa wrote: post #89
grannyg00se wrote: post #28

"Our mission with BlackGirlsCode is to “change the ratio” of women of color in technology and that begins with introducing computer programming and STEM subjects to girls of all colors at an early age. " It's not only for black girls. I suspect it's for all but white though so they still exclude based on color. And of course age and gender. I really wish people would stop reinforcing racial discrimination of all sort…

since when do all colors exclude white?

Well I may have read "all colored girls" rather than "girls of all colors" but mostly it doesn't seem to make sense to call your organization BlackGirlsCode and have race be completely irrelevant. Why bring it up at all? It's encouraging race discrimination either way.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#127

Post by king_jester »

tysonjennings wrote: post #118
king_jester wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that you cite the Dunning–Kruger effect while providing no evidence, citations, or logical arguments in your OP is quite amazing.

This is a web forum not a dissertation. Do your own research.

You asserted that black people are of lower intelligence than other groups of people without any citation or argument. You also argued that the status of Haiti and Africa (two unalike things, btw, as one is a country and another a continent) is solely due to this lack of intelligence instead of a history of exploitation and colonialism. Then, you cite the Dunning–Kruger effect as a way to dismiss criticism.

I am merely pointing out that you 1) offer no info, 2) clearly are racist, and 3) believe yourself that you have a superior point of view on this story. What you have said is contradictory and it is essential that this is pointed out so that others see why you are so very wrong.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#128

Post by dinkumthinkum »

IanDrake wrote: post #98
dinkumthinkum wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this is nothing more than naive pedantry. There is a very large economic demographic in this country that is apparently at a disadvantage. It's called black girls/females. It's not bald hispanic athiests, or freckle-faced Irish mormons or celebrity scientologists that have blond hair. There is a real problem that can potentially be solved. You can play this game if you want but there is quite clearly a qualitativ…

>There is a very large economic demographic in this country that is apparently at a disadvantage. It's called black girls/females. The only point in your reply that I understand is that you believe black women are poor, therefore typical social rules regarding segregation don't apply. >If calling the group "Black Girls Can Code" allows the group to raise more money... By this logic you are OK with a group called "Whi…

> The only point in your reply that I understand is that you believe black women are poor, therefore typical social rules regarding segregation don't apply.

I don't know why you're having trouble understanding this. This stuff is pretty basic to understand. Your view is childish and pedantic. "Wah realizing there are social mores in effect in the real world is just segregation."

> By this logic you are OK with a group called "White boys can code" IF it helped that group raise money? And why not, these could be boys from Appalachia who have Mountain Dew and Snickers for dinner every night.

No, I think there are qualitative social implications that we all recognize when we stop making silly statements like "Why is there not White Entertainment Television." But I do think having groups as you suggested is a good idea but I think the naming of them should pay attention to social realities.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#129

Post by colmvp »

Produce wrote: post #100
colmvp wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'So if I started a charity called WhiteMenCode, do you think that it would be fair to all of the other races and genders?' Do white guys need more help in America? Statistically, white men have a higher chance at being well... anything. Actor. Model. CEOs. Executives. Managers. Interracial marriages. Politicians. Lack of racial profiling. White men getting worked up about this is like rich people getting worked up ab…

That's making the assumption that white people cannot possibly be poor and that black women cannot possibly be rich. I, for one, was poor most of my life and I'm white, albeit not in the US but just across the pond. There are plenty of white people who live in abject poverty. Deprivation of basic needs knows no colour, creed or gender. Why draw lines when it would benefit more people to refrain from doing so? That's…

"There are plenty of white people who live in abject poverty."

Sure, but just by being another race, there is very little if any chance for non-white males to do certain things. A feel-good story like Jim Carrey would NEVER happen for a Asian male in America. Heck there was even a survey that found women estimate Asian men would need to earn about $200k to have the same 'status' as a white male. So yes, while being poor sucks for all, but be a poor minority is even worse.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#130

Post by Jach »

rmc wrote: post #109
tysonjennings wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not arguing that blacks are "stupid" because they are poor. It astounds me that you would misinterpret my words so grossly.

Eh, yes you did: What's the poorest country in the western hemisphere? Haiti. What makes it "special"? Now, what's the poorest most impoverished continent in the world? Africa. What makes it "special"? I think you get the picture. You implied "poverty, ergo stupidity"

I interpreted it the other way around, it's easy to get mixed up when subjects are sensitive. He's not trying a deductive argument (which would be trivially defeated by pointing to, off the top of my head, Perelman, and many others one which you also tried), his approach is inductive. He's offering statements about reality as evidence which are consistent with the hypothesis that "black people are stupider on average". That hypothesis was also made and argued pre- and post-civil war in America, along with the prediction that subjecting the freed slaves to the economic slavery of the north was a worse fate because it was possible to work full-time and still not be able to afford adequate living, something we also see more clearly in east-Asian sweat shops today but also more subtly (i.e. the actual conditions are better but real choices and freedoms are nonexistent) all around America.

Another approach to having a useful discussion is "What would the world look like if 'black people are stupider on average' was true, and if it was false?"

Of course his post wasn't careful enough since you still misinterpreted it, it's even possible I misinterpreted as well, but even if I'm wrong I consider my reading more charitable and if you seek a discussion it's better to pick the more charitable one given alternatives.

Of course, you could just flame him as others are doing. Might be better to just downvote and ignore (as many are as well).

Post reply on HN