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BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

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Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#101

Post by andyjsong »

vijayr wrote: post #53
_pius wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read your rant a few times and I've yet to see your point. Charities should be based on need and helping the greater good, not on playing favorites. This isn't a charity. A black woman started this program to address a legitimate need that she saw. Others who agreed with her gave her money to do it. Where is the bad in this? How is this anything but a net positive for the world?

I understand where the GP is coming from. Teaching kids to code is an absolutely nice thing to do. But segregating based on color or gender or caste is never a good idea. What if a poor white or Asian or Hispanic kid wants to join this class? They'll be turned away? To give an example: India is a deeply divided society, based on caste/religion etc. In many educational institutions, huge percentage of seats are reserv…

> So a kid, who gets very low grades, can get into a good institution, just because he is from a lower caste, even if that kid's family is rich. On the other hand, a poor kid from a so called "higher" caste, can't get in, even after getting high grades, as there are only so many seats and competition is tough. This has wrecked havoc in the Indian society, as absolutely dumb kids get into good colleges, while bright kids are left out.

This vaguely sounds like affirmative action in the US.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#102

Post by mindcrime »

colmvp wrote: post #91
Produce wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if I started a charity called WhiteMenCode, do you think that it would be fair to all of the other races and genders? Would it be fair that one segment of the impoverished get special treatment? Surely it would be better to organise something like PoorPeopleCode, since that is the segment of society which, in fact, needs help - poor people. Who gives a crap about race or gender? It's bigger than that.

'So if I started a charity called WhiteMenCode, do you think that it would be fair to all of the other races and genders?' Do white guys need more help in America? Statistically, white men have a higher chance at being well... anything. Actor. Model. CEOs. Executives. Managers. Interracial marriages. Politicians. Lack of racial profiling. White men getting worked up about this is like rich people getting worked up ab…

Do white guys need more help in America?

Some do, yes. Depending on whether your concern is for actual living, breathing individuals, or for statistics and metadata about some collective.

Sure, it's easy to talk about how white men have "privilege" and are "over-represented" in some group, etc., etc., ad infinitum. But somewhere, out there, is a poor white male kid, growing up in some impoverished neighborhood, whose family can't afford a computer, who attends a slummy school with no computer education, and who would absolutely benefit from a "White Boys Code" initiative. And to that individual, all the statistics about white male privilege and over-representation mean bugger-all.

Note: none of this means I'm against the Black Girls Code initiative, BTW. I just think the person who posed the question above about "White guys code" has a point in a way. In this case though, if an individual wants to put their time, effort and resources into helping one specific group, well, that's their right. No one can save the entire world (except Bruce Willis, I guess), so we all have to pick our battles.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#103

Post by peterwwillis »

tysonjennings wrote: post #64
JPKab wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be zero targeting of ethnicity. Excluding people based on ethnicity is wrong, no matter what the ethnic group is. And what makes you so sure that black men would relate to black women better than they would men of other ethnic backgrounds? Which is the bigger divider, gender or ethnicity? The point I am making isn't that this isn't a good thing, because as I said in my original post, helping any disadvan…

Dude, I'm a fairly new user with low karma but I'm going to burn every bit of it up in this one post so I'm going to try to make it good. First, let me ask you a question. What's the poorest country in the western hemisphere? Haiti. What makes it "special"? Now, what's the poorest most impoverished continent in the world? Africa. What makes it "special"? I think you get the picture. I'm going to tell you a little sec…

Did you know that White people are statistically more likely to consider themselves superior to non-White people?

Also, it's obvious why Jews get more nobel prizes. Since they control the media and the banks, they get better education and better publication of their work. Duh! Don't believe me? Type in "jews control " in Google and check out the auto-complete results. Proof.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#104

Post by colmvp »

mindstab wrote: post #26
JPKab wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be zero targeting of ethnicity. Excluding people based on ethnicity is wrong, no matter what the ethnic group is. And what makes you so sure that black men would relate to black women better than they would men of other ethnic backgrounds? Which is the bigger divider, gender or ethnicity? The point I am making isn't that this isn't a good thing, because as I said in my original post, helping any disadvan…

You don't get it. By "not discriminating" you are essentially discriminating against everyone who isn't in the majority. People are not these ideal unxenophobic people. You say you grew up in a black neighborhood but I'm going to guess you are a white male yourself. People group by like and are often exclusionary. Look at Gnome and Google's summer of code. They have started doing specifically female targeted ones bec…

"You don't get it. By "not discriminating" you are essentially discriminating against everyone who isn't in the majority. People are not these ideal unxenophobic people. You say you grew up in a black neighborhood but I'm going to guess you are a white male yourself."

This a million times over. White men have certain inherent advantages over other demographic makeups in the Western world that it's laughable a white guy would feel offended by this small little group that's marginalized. It's like a rich person being offended that a non-for-profit just exists for poor people.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#105

Post by sp332 »

TwiztidK wrote: post #97
sp332 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of hacker groups are already effectively "whites code" or even "white men code". So "black girls code" is just actually just as specific as some existing groups.

I'm suggesting that any group that limits itself accoring to race or gender is unaccecptable. If these hacker groups are white only, then we need to break down the barriers that are keeping minorities and women out rather than starting new groups and self-segregating.

I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the group is very exclusive. After all the women's hacker groups don't mind some men showing up, it's just that the focus is on catering to women. There's nothing wrong with small groups that pander to arbitrarily specific demographics, as long as the groups stay small.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#106

Post by nollidge »

mibbitier wrote: post #37
_pius wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4262233

I disagree. Everyone can be a minority if they decide to, depending on how you cut the population. To claim "white males" are a majority is just an arbitrary distinction you're making. Everyone is a majority or minority depending on your criteria. You don't fix racism/sexist/etc with more racism/sexism/etc. You fix it by being inclusive, and judging people on their merits.

What exactly do you disagree with?

> Everyone can be a minority if they decide to, depending on how you cut the population.

No, not if they "decide to". I think you mean that every person on the planet has minority status within any number of categorizations, but we're talking about categorizations that actually matter in terms of discrimination.

Or do you mean to argue that U.S. soccer fans, marathon runners, and male nurses (all minorities) have similar life experiences as racial minorities?

> To claim "white males" are a majority is just an arbitrary distinction you're making.

It's not arbitrary if it's a salient factor in determining a person's social and economic outcome.

> You fix it by being inclusive, and judging people on their merits.

Indeed. Interesting, though, that you're more concerned about how this group is acting in regard than how society at large is...

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#107

Post by tysonjennings »

peterwwillis wrote: post #103
tysonjennings wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude, I'm a fairly new user with low karma but I'm going to burn every bit of it up in this one post so I'm going to try to make it good. First, let me ask you a question. What's the poorest country in the western hemisphere? Haiti. What makes it "special"? Now, what's the poorest most impoverished continent in the world? Africa. What makes it "special"? I think you get the picture. I'm going to tell you a little sec…

Did you know that White people are statistically more likely to consider themselves superior to non-White people? Also, it's obvious why Jews get more nobel prizes. Since they control the media and the banks, they get better education and better publication of their work. Duh! Don't believe me? Type in "jews control " in Google and check out the auto-complete results. Proof.

You think you're being clever by mocking me? Just for the record the people that believe themselves the most clever are the ones least qualified to make the judgement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#108

Post by prayag »

unit_testing wrote: post #60
rmc wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all defintions of racism mean "Any segmentation based on skin colour". Some people define racism as a privileged powerful racial group discriminating and holding back a disadvantaged racial group. So yes, a programme that targets helping black people in tech is not racist, but helping white people in tech is racist.

Are poor, uneducated whites less worthy of help than wealthy, affluent blacks? If you believe so, you're a bigot. Also, are poor, uneducated whites less worthy of help than poor, uneducated blacks?

>Are poor, uneducated whites less worthy of help than wealthy, affluent blacks?

Of course not, but in most cases poor uneducated white people are not poor and uneducated because of the racial dynamics. In a lot of cases, the poor black women are poor because of the racial and gender dynamics.

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#109

Post by rmc »

tysonjennings wrote: post #78
rmc wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The poorest countries in Europe are ethnically Catholic. By your logic, catholics are stupid. Stupid mentally inferior JFK.

I'm not arguing that blacks are "stupid" because they are poor. It astounds me that you would misinterpret my words so grossly.

Eh, yes you did:

What's the poorest country in the western hemisphere? Haiti. What makes it "special"? Now, what's the poorest most impoverished continent in the world? Africa. What makes it "special"? I think you get the picture.

You implied "poverty, ergo stupidity"

Re: BlackGirlsCode Raises $21,000 To Fund Summer Of Code Program

#110

Post by prayag »

JPKab wrote: post #16
_pius wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read your rant a few times and I've yet to see your point. Charities should be based on need and helping the greater good, not on playing favorites. This isn't a charity. A black woman started this program to address a legitimate need that she saw. Others who agreed with her gave her money to do it. Where is the bad in this? How is this anything but a net positive for the world?

The bad in this would be a young black girl trying to bring her hispanic friend. Exclusion is exclusion. If this were the WhiteBoysSew club, you would call it racist, despite the fact that very few white boys learn to sew.

exclusion != racism. Racism has power dynamics associated with it. If exclusion (or special inclusion programs as I would call it) leads to a more racially and gender balanced community it is a good thing.
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