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Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

nature.com

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Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#181

Post by Spivak »

ozim wrote: post #42
asdff wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think people realize the scale of soda consumption that needs to happen to have health issues. By and large the people in these affected studies are not drinking water at all. They are getting all their thirst needs met by a sugary drink. That is so overboard. You can have a can of coke every now and then and not have your enamel slough off.

Mostly from own experience I know poor people drink sodas and as you get used to the taste you don’t like taste of plain water - even when you have decent tap water. As an adult I started drinking tap water and now I don’t like taste of sodas anymore. I am happy that I got over with it but still have some people I know stuck on sodas and disliking plain water taste.

I think "don't like the taste of water" accurately describes me. That being said I do have a rule of "never drink anything with calories" specifically to avoid the sugar. But I don't know what you plain water drinkers are on about, the added flavor tricks me into drinking way more than I would naturally.

Humans have been constantly flavoring our water for thousands of years, I think the verdict is in that water tastes kinda meh. I would take tea or flavor extracts every time.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#182

Post by gdjskslsuhkso »

dilap wrote: post #148
siliconc0w wrote: post #37

I'd bet a dollar per gram additive sugar tax in excess of 5g would immediately flatten the chronic disease curve. Maybe double that if it's marketed towards kids. There are a lot of problems besides sugar/HFCS but it's easily towards the top of the list.

I'd take the other side of that bet. https://imgur.com/a/4b0O4AW Prior to early 2000s when sugar consumption started going down, it was probably a reasonble guess as one of the drivers of increasing disease. But since then sugar consumption has tailed off while disease rates have continued to rise, so I don't think it's plausible anymore. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7666899/ My bet to flatten the chronic…

Are there any chains that still use tallow to fry food?

I love fried food and would pay a premium for high quality oil options. Most of the time you don't know what it is, at best it's peanut (five guys). I'd much prefer avocado oil or tallow.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#183

Post by codazoda »

SoftTalker wrote: post #98
brailsafe wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll be the guy that I assume most people are sick of by this point, and recommend experimenting with dropping the additives in exchange for higher quality coffee if you can afford it (it's usually not much more per cup). At effectively zero calories, after some period of time you'll get used to it and recalibrate your sense of sweetness to the point where sugary drinks and coffee are much less palatable

I honestly can't tell much difference between expensive coffee and Maxwell House. But in general I've never nerded out over coffee, wine, bread, cheese, whiskey, or any other food or beverage. I don't add sugar to my coffee either.

I’ve tried lots of different coffee’s and I keep going back to (don’t laugh) Folgers Instant. Maybe it’s because it’s what my parents had when I was a kid. Nothing else is quite like it.

Unfortunately, I add 100 calories of crap to it. But I drink it slower than Coke and it’s at least half the calories of a 32oz (my other vise). I use it as a way to lower my calorie count, just a little.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#184

Post by gdjskslsuhkso »

busyant wrote: post #171
tasty_freeze wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to drink a lot of soda but stopped 15 years ago and have had a total of three or four cans since. I switched to unsweetened green tea instead of a zero-calorie soda because I don't like the taste of artificial sweeteners, and I am somewhat suspicious of the unknown long-term consequences of their use.

> I am somewhat suspicious of the unknown long-term consequences of their use. Can you elaborate on what you mean? You're suspicious that sweetened drinks are more harmful than advertised? Less harmful? Something else?

Aspartame metabolises into methanol. Sugar alcohols give you the squirts. Lots of them have downsides.

Allulose seems promising, I'd love to find some pop sweetened with it.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#185

Post by underlipton »

mrcwinn wrote: post #150

My father was Type 2 and for decades drank sweet tea; sweet tea that progressively became sweeter and sweeter. If you were to let it settle, you would see a thick layer of sugar sitting at the bottom of the glass. Eventually, he lost both of his legs beneath the knee due to infections that festered. He spent his last few years in a wheelchair and then eventually died of a heart attack. Bad habits, bit by bit, over th…

Your father sounds similar to mine: high-achiever, running every which way. Question: how was his sleep? My father's career was in a field that required annual physical fitness certification; his diet probably could have stood to include less salt and sugar when I was very young, but he cleaned it up, especially by the time he was diagnosed with T2. Something his job also required, however: early mornings. Late nights. And, evidently, not enough time to stop for a moment and determine if he might have sleep apnea (he did).

So, I think it's a three-part issue. Diet (sugar), obviously. Exercise, too, and whether or not you're getting it regularly throughout the day, every day. But I think it all goes to shit if you're getting bad sleep, especially if that "bad sleep" is "miniature bouts of asphyxiation." It completely screws with your body's ability to regulate itself, hormonally, and to recover from the day's damage.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#186

Post by Supermancho »

chrisco255 wrote: post #170
pessimizer wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> About 15 years ago, I stopped drinking soda. Not out of a desire to be healthy or loose weight[...] Same thing happened to me at probably around the same time. I realized I could just have a lollypop, and it would be a tenth of the sugar. Most of the sweetness in soda doesn't even get a chance to touch your tongue before it's going down your throat. If I want candy, I should just have a piece of candy. If I'm thirs…

It's probably a risky line of thinking, if you're addicted to sugar, to substitute in some other source of sugar. Best to avoid pastries, lollipops and sugary sodas.

It's a risky way of thinking to reduce every act to a moral choice. ie I could have used the energy that I burned making this post, to hand out a dollar to a homeless person.

Beyond how ridiculously reductive this becomes, it's impractical. You have to have carbs for your brain to run.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#187

Post by sitkack »

tanaros wrote: post #140
sitkack wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument by massive processed food industries, that if we get Universal Healthcare, that their products and practices will be curtailed because it will be for the actual monetary public good says nothing about what is sold in countries with public healthcare. Are you saying that corporate processed food manufacturers are not making that statement? Clearly there is a problem with soda consumption leading to obesi…

> Are you saying that corporate processed food manufacturers are not making that statement? No. I have no knowledge of what statements such manufacturers are or are not making. However, your original post said “One of the reasons that we don't have Universal Healthcare in the US is that things that are categorically unhealthy would be prohibited from being sold.” This phrasing implies that the statement is true, or a…

Those other countries already have Universal Healthcare, so no lobbying against UH will be effective or successful. The fact that other countries have a supply of unhealthy processed food doesn't have any bearing about how much effort US food companies will put in preventing UH.

You can see their concerted response when sugar taxes are instituted.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#188

Post by davoneus »

malfist wrote: post #163
musicale wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think citric acid is better than phosphoric acid (e.g. for your bones and kidneys), though both can dissolve tooth enamel. OJ also has more vitamin C than typical sodas. Milk has more calories/ounce than soda, but it also has protein, fat, and calcium. Anecdotally, I find juice more filling than soda, milk even more so.

Citric acid and phosphoric acid likely have the same impact on your teeth and no impact on your bones and kidneys. Acids and bases on your diet have very little to do with what pH is exposed to the rest of your body. Your stomach is probably more acid than anything you eat or drink, and your lungs and kidneys tightly regulate the pH of the blood. If your diet is effecting your blood pH, your probably already on death…

Intuitively, I suspect any acid is bad for your teeth. But I see that statement primarily from Dentists, and their track record in a number of areas is less than stellar. Prime example: Flossing and 6 month checkups. Neither of which have good scientific evidence, despite their widespread promotion.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#189

Post by bitwize »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #131
athenot wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About 15 years ago, I stopped drinking soda. Not out of a desire to be healthy or loose weight but simply because it dawned on me that for the same amount of sugar in one soft drink that I drink without any afterthought, I could enjoy a really good pastry that I can slowly savor. I do the same for fats. The way I look at it, I want to maximize the "enjoyment per kcalorie". :) More recently, I'm starting to apply this…

Good for you. I think for meat especially, there's a difference between the stuff people talk about (like premium steaks they almost never eat) and the reality of what ends up on their plates which is a lot less glamorous. A typical fast food burger just isn't that great in terms of texture, taste, looks, etc. and IMHO almost always disappointingly unsatisfying and slightly uncomfortable afterwards. I'll eat that onc…

> A typical fast food burger just isn't that great in terms of texture, taste, looks, etc. and IMHO almost always disappointingly unsatisfying and slightly uncomfortable afterwards. I'll eat that once in a while; usually because there's nothing more convenient and never because I crave one.

The "Big Mac Attack" is real. I used to get one about every six months or so. Then I would eat a Big Mac, and the attack would be sated, but the GI discomfort reminded me of why I don't get Big Mac Attacks more often.

These days I just avoid fast food. I live in a part of the country that's actually rather persnickety about good food, and there are much fresher options available nearby that are rather cheap. Plus I'm stocked up on low-carb soups, lunch meats, and other yummies most of the time now.

> And the whole point of heavy spicing in countries with warm climates like India was historically to mask the flavor of cheap cuts of meat that were maybe a bit past their prime.

My dad used to tell me stories about roadside chili houses in Texas. They kept a big pot of chili constantly going, and added whatever meat they could find, together with beans, spices, etc. to keep the pot full as the chili was served to customers. Roadkill was, supposedly, one of the most convenient sources of meat for the pot.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#190

Post by eru »

Supermancho wrote: post #186
chrisco255 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably a risky line of thinking, if you're addicted to sugar, to substitute in some other source of sugar. Best to avoid pastries, lollipops and sugary sodas.

It's a risky way of thinking to reduce every act to a moral choice. ie I could have used the energy that I burned making this post, to hand out a dollar to a homeless person. Beyond how ridiculously reductive this becomes, it's impractical. You have to have carbs for your brain to run.

I agree with almost everything you say. However:

> Beyond how ridiculously reductive this becomes, it's impractical. You have to have carbs for your brain to run.

No. People live on no-carb diets just fine and enter ketosis. (And in any case, the comment you replied to only talked about sugar, not carbs in general.)

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