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Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

nature.com

51–60 of 397 posts

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#51

I'd bet a dollar per gram additive sugar tax in excess of 5g would immediately flatten the chronic disease curve. Maybe double that if it's marketed towards kids. There are a lot of problems besides sugar/HFCS but it's easily towards the top of the list.

> I'd bet a dollar per gram additive sugar tax in excess of 5g would immediately flatten the chronic disease curve. Maybe double that if it's marketed towards kids. There are a lot of problems besides sugar/HFCS but it's easily towards the top of the list.

It doesn't, it doesn't even discourage the purchases unless (perhaps?) universally adopted: Boulder, CO has had a sugar tax for a while now, and all it does is punish not curtail the consumer: often the poorer ones most as it accounts for a larger part of their income/wages. If they are so motivated they continue to buy said sugary drink at an inflated price with no benefit, or simply go 6 miles out of town and purchase in bulk if they are committed to said behaviour. I've seen it all too often,and have even managed to 'hack' the system by buying things that contain sugar but somehow flew under the radar (San Peligrino fruit flavored sodas).

It's all just window dressing and shows just how poorly educated the average consumer is in measuring the necessary caloric intake relative to their lifestyle(s), but perhaps more importantly how food has been weaponized, mainly in the US, which has a direct correlation to type 2 diabetes being so prevalent in the first place.

It's hard to blame either or entirely, but I'd saw its a 30:70 with the former and latter respectively.

The truth is I stopped drinking soda after peaking in my early 20s to late teens, I still have a relatively fast metabolism and an active lifestyle to supplement it, but the feeling you get from the sugar high of continued use has gone from energizing back then to feeling ill for hours now.

I occasionally drink soda with specific meals, often for nostalgia to this day, but its hardly a daily or even weekly thing for me anymore.

Ultimately, if your reasoning/logic were true we would see a dramatic drop in fast food consumption due to the higher prices but that simply isn't the case and corps in the fast food industry are reporting record profits YoY in this market despite the increase in price.

I see food the same way I see drugs at this point, both in excess or when misused can be incredibly dangerous, the best a Society can do is to safely regulate and educate it's populace in the pros/cons usage of both: nothing will stop a person from seeking or abusing either if they so desire. And its is a larger loss in agency for said Society to pretend it can as it often leads to draconian measures with no meaningful or effective outcome (eg sugar tax).

In fact having worked in all aspects of the food industry from farm to table for a significant portion of my life, restaurant culture and the art of cuisine/gastronomy wouldn't even be a thing if it weren't for the debauchery and the unruly excess of the clientele who were ready and willing to drop up to a day's wage on a meal(s) and accompanying alcohol were it not for the 'uninhibited decadence'a of the consumer.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also good that GLP-1s have been found to help people patch the reward center around unhealthy diet demand signals. We know these things are bad, we know will power isn't a solution, and we have a fix we can deploy at scale relatively inexpensively. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41988285 ("HN: GLP-1 for Everything") https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42579445 ("HN: Weight loss drugs seem to be driving down gr…

Saying will power isn’t a solution is insulting to everyone that successfully made lifestyle and diet changes to become healthier without pharmaceutical intervention. It may not work for everyone all the time, but I know a lot of people that have made these changes.

This is just an uncharitable / strawman interpretation of what they said. They are concerned with all the people left over once you remove the people that just had to muster up "willpower". And they are concerned for the people who weren't dealt the same hand of traits that us fit people have.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#53
post #28
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America's poor use EBT/food stamps to buy massive amounts of junk food, including billions on soda. Those same people are almost 100% on ACA or state health insurance plans and milking the tax payer on treatment for obesity, diabetes, and cardiovascular disease. There is no way, in my mind, it is feasible to fund these lifestyles and provide the treatment for it. Its absolutely insane.

Do they? Food stamps in most states have restrictions on what you can buy with them. My impression is soda is not on the list. Of course this is (mostly?) the states and every state has different rules so you probably need to cite 50 different state rules to verify this and thus an exception state is likely.

This is an ongoing debate, but afaik you can use them for soda [1].

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/13/well/eat/food-stamp-snap-...

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#54
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think people realize the scale of soda consumption that needs to happen to have health issues. By and large the people in these affected studies are not drinking water at all. They are getting all their thirst needs met by a sugary drink. That is so overboard. You can have a can of coke every now and then and not have your enamel slough off.

We had a family friend who is in her late 50s stay for a couple of days over Christmas, all she drunk was Diet Coke. Even going to bed at night she took a bottle of Diet Coke with her. The thought of waking up through the night for a swig of Coke grosses me out a bit. And yes, she is the absolute picture of health...

I mean, diet coke explicitly doesn't have the kind of sugar in this study.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#55
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the Cheerios box in my cupboard: 140 calories per serving, 1g added sugar per serving. 1g carb = 4 calories. 4 / 140 = 3%. I would not be at all surprised if some flavor of Cheerios is 24% added sugar, but regular Cheerios are not so bad in the sugar department.

> 1g added sugar per serving That is still a good amount of sugar given it’s every day and setting your morning baseline. If taken with e.g. a refined juice or sweetened coffee, that’s probably setting one up for sugar cravings in a few hours.

A slice of bread (in the U.S.) has more than 1g of added sugar (and less than 140 calories). (If you know of any besides Ezekiel that have less sugar, I would like to hear about it.) I don't think it is fair to villainize Cheerios when it is one of the least offensive options among ultraprocessed breakfast cereals. Especially based on... other things that aren't Cheerios? Juice (20+ g sugar) and coffee sweetener (4+ g sugar) would be the villains in this scenario.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also good that GLP-1s have been found to help people patch the reward center around unhealthy diet demand signals. We know these things are bad, we know will power isn't a solution, and we have a fix we can deploy at scale relatively inexpensively. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41988285 ("HN: GLP-1 for Everything") https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42579445 ("HN: Weight loss drugs seem to be driving down gr…

Saying will power isn’t a solution is insulting to everyone that successfully made lifestyle and diet changes to become healthier without pharmaceutical intervention. It may not work for everyone all the time, but I know a lot of people that have made these changes.

Their willpower doesn’t appear to have solved the issue on a societal level, and it is not an insult to say that.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#57
post #39

Interesting. I think folks in the comments here maybe missed this paper is way more about the beverages part making it important. The research is around sugar sweetened beverages (SSBs). If I'm reading it right, the SSBs have a differentmetabolic effect. "Due to their liquid form, SSBs are rapidly consumed and digested, resulting in lower satiety, higher caloric intake and weight gain. High doses of rapidly digested…

I'm curious what is the number of added sugars and above 50kcal peer 8 oz serving. You can get away with saying fruit drinks have no added sugar and still be insanely sugary.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#58
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shops will just sell the sugar and the soda separately, mix it yourself :) Or people will pay more.

Not what has happened in the UK, where sugar tax has been a thing since 2018. It's now actually quite hard to find a sweetened drink - almost all soda-style beverages now are "zero sugar", sweetened with artificial sweeteners. Nobody is buying sugar and pouring it in. Nobody. It's a little too early to determine if this has slowed the prevalence of diabetes in the population. One problem is that other studies have sh…

> It's a complex picture, but sugar taxes seem to be a reasonable way to get sugary drinks off the shelves.

As a person who is indifferent to the prospect, I fail to see why?

When I lived in the UK a lot of people who couldn't afford real juice would buy 'squash' and drink it as a replacement for juice. I personally found it entirely revolting and way too sugary but on occasion used it in my teas to flavor them: I just can't see why the consumer should be punished with less options, or worse those made with things like aspertame, then simply rely on the consumer to use said product responsibly. I guess one can say with things like the NHS the consequences are socialized, but even that is a stretch as the British diet is a near mirror image of it's American counterpart in it's wide use of highly processed and refined foodstuff.

Besides, if you go to the smaller shops run by non-Anglo merchants you will find every conceivable item you can imagine: I personally think Turkish food has way too much sugar in it's diet, but as I found out from our baker they make the most amazing fruit syrups to make deserts with, which incidentally make for good tea enhancers as well!

Again, maybe I'm just too biased given my lived experience in this space, but nothing has yet to convince me that price alone serves as a real deterrent to really solve this issue, only an improved lifestyle choice where those calories get effectively used end up really solving the core issue.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#59
post #39

Interesting. I think folks in the comments here maybe missed this paper is way more about the beverages part making it important. The research is around sugar sweetened beverages (SSBs). If I'm reading it right, the SSBs have a differentmetabolic effect. "Due to their liquid form, SSBs are rapidly consumed and digested, resulting in lower satiety, higher caloric intake and weight gain. High doses of rapidly digested…

All carbohydrates eventually break down into sugars. Some quite a bit faster than others.

What people and scientists haven't been saying in any meaningful way is the truth that carbohydrate poisoning is a real thing. If you eat too much, its harmful.

Its common knowledge that medicines may become poisons when taken in too high amounts. This applies to most things in this area.

Protein poisoning is fairly easily discovered in the scientific literature, why isn't carbohydrate poisoning? Its a conundrum.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#60
post #39

Interesting. I think folks in the comments here maybe missed this paper is way more about the beverages part making it important. The research is around sugar sweetened beverages (SSBs). If I'm reading it right, the SSBs have a differentmetabolic effect. "Due to their liquid form, SSBs are rapidly consumed and digested, resulting in lower satiety, higher caloric intake and weight gain. High doses of rapidly digested…

About 15 years ago, I stopped drinking soda. Not out of a desire to be healthy or loose weight but simply because it dawned on me that for the same amount of sugar in one soft drink that I drink without any afterthought, I could enjoy a really good pastry that I can slowly savor.

I do the same for fats. The way I look at it, I want to maximize the "enjoyment per kcalorie". :)

More recently, I'm starting to apply this to meat as well. I really enjoy meat, but I'm not one for quantity since I'm on the skinnier side. So I'm trying to enjoy meat more, and in doing so, get better quality, prepare it better, etc. while at the same time eating less of it. This is still a work in progress, and eating in restaurants can be challenging as they usually favor quantity over quality—except for the very high-end & costly places.

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