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Ending our third party fact-checking program and moving to Community Notes model

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Re: Ending our third party fact-checking program and moving to Community Notes model

#381

Post by tptacek »

davidw wrote: post #321
AlchemistCamp wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Move our trust and safety and content moderation teams out of California, and our US content review to Texas. This will help remove the concern that biased employees are overly censoring content." - like people being in Texas makes them more objective?! The FB office in Austin, Texas is a moderately left-leaning area. Their office in Silicon Valley is about the most extreme left-wing place in the country. At the v…

It's not about actual employees, it's about signalling "Texas - yay!" and "California - booooo!" in order to make good with the incoming administration.

Well, that and moderators being able to afford 1-bedroom apartments.

Re: Ending our third party fact-checking program and moving to Community Notes model

#382

Post by mhh__ »

linuxhansl wrote: post #338

Regardless of what you think about this step I find it disconcerting that we can now disagree on facts. For example: - whether crime is up or down - whether the earth is warming or not - how many people live in poverty - what the rate of inflation is - how much social security or healthcare costs - etc These are all verifiable, measurable facts, and yet, we somehow manage to disagree. We always used to disagree and t…

With the exception of fiscal cost and global warming those are all quite subtle, actually. $Employer spends rather a lot of time replicating official inflation numbers, it's not trivial.

Re: Ending our third party fact-checking program and moving to Community Notes model

#383

Post by AlchemistCamp »

pesus wrote: post #345
AlchemistCamp wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Move our trust and safety and content moderation teams out of California, and our US content review to Texas. This will help remove the concern that biased employees are overly censoring content." - like people being in Texas makes them more objective?! The FB office in Austin, Texas is a moderately left-leaning area. Their office in Silicon Valley is about the most extreme left-wing place in the country. At the v…

Thinking Menlo Park (or any of Silicon Valley, really) is in any way "extreme left-wing" is a sure indication you haven't spent any time there and are basing your viewpoints off of what others have said on social media. Billion dollar corporations by definition do not support anything remotely "extreme left-wing".

I’ve lived in SF, Mountain View and also the east bay and I’ve worked at a billion dollar company that did indeed support some very left-wing causes.

Despite having grown up in a light blue state, the difference in politics was very noticeable when I got to SF/SV. This isn’t a value judgement, just my observation.

Re: Ending our third party fact-checking program and moving to Community Notes model

#384

Post by hyeonwho4 »

efdee wrote: post #277
nailer wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank God. Fact checkers and political organisations pretending to fact check frequently spread false information. Aside from the 2020 election interference regarding the Hunter Biden laptop (which was falsely claimed to be a Russian disinformation effort), you can visit Snopes right now and read an article on how someone that blew up people (and now works for BLM) may not be a terrorist because ‘there are many diffe…

I think that Snopes link makes it perfectly clear what is going on. Just because you disagree doesn't mean that it's wrong.

I think the Snopes link indicates the grandparent's point well, if not in the way that was intended: words being subjective and imprecise, the fact checker has many degrees of freedom. If we allow fact checkers to censor content, they will use the linguistic degrees of freedom to censor selectively to the benefit of their political bias. (Your terrorist is my freedom fighter, your demonstrator is my rioter, your just cause is an imposition on my freedoms, etc.)

Snopes was careful to show degrees of freedom with this fact check, but most social media fact checkers will not be so careful. Social media fact checkers will have a tendency to censor in the direction of the currently-in-power political party, because that party is able to set regulatory policy on social media companies. So the only thing which will prevent censorship from blowing with the political winds is to not have centralized censorship.

Community notes (as implemented at Twitter) require agreement of multiple people who are not in agreement on issues to agree on Notes. I am cautiously optimistic that it may be possible to correct wrong speech with more speech in a nonpartisan manner.

Re: Ending our third party fact-checking program and moving to Community Notes model

#385

Post by krcz »

linuxhansl wrote: post #338

Regardless of what you think about this step I find it disconcerting that we can now disagree on facts. For example: - whether crime is up or down - whether the earth is warming or not - how many people live in poverty - what the rate of inflation is - how much social security or healthcare costs - etc These are all verifiable, measurable facts, and yet, we somehow manage to disagree. We always used to disagree and t…

> Imagine math if we'd question the basic axioms.

No need to imagine, it's enough to look into non-Euclidean geometry (obtained by excluding Euclid's fifth axiom), non-standard models of geometry, or reverse mathematics (studying which axioms are necessary for a specific theorem to be provable).

Re: Ending our third party fact-checking program and moving to Community Notes model

#386

Post by oliviergg »

alibarber wrote: post #170
oliviergg wrote: post #54

Zuck claims "Europe has an ever increasing number of laws,institutionalizing censorship and making difficult to build something innovative" Ouch. As a European, I feel very wary of such a sentence and the implications. Time for Europe to wake up ? (edit: fix typos)

As a European who does generaly feel that the continent is on its way to becomming a museum, describing the absolute bilge that the flagship products of Facebook, YouTube, X etc are as 'innovative' feels in the same ballpark as describing the work of tobacco companies to sell and advertise their products in the 50s-80s as innovative.

They were innovative. I don’t know for other eu countries, but it seems that in France, there were only unsuccessful copycat of end user service. I’m probably a bit harsh, it’s because I m under impression that the gap between us (eu vs us) is widening. 10 years ago, there was open source, there was ovh, there was hope. With the cloud, we have surrender a lot of power to massive us company.

Re: Ending our third party fact-checking program and moving to Community Notes model

#387

Post by WhitneyLand »

y33t wrote: post #276
circlingthesun wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once posted a picture of an email stating my train was delayed in French. So the word 'retard' appeared in it. Instagram banned me from monetization or partnerships or something on my account, because the word for delay in French is offensive in English.

In Chinese there's a common word that sounds like a particularly offensive racial slur to the untrained American ear. I've seen Chinese speakers called out for this in person, but everything got straightened out pretty quickly. This was pre-social media, but it's not hard to imagine a social media uproar over it these days.

It is quite striking and bizarre the first time you’re in an extended conversation, and hear it over and over.

Surprised someone was called out though as all the social cues around should be enough to sense no ill intent.

Re: Ending our third party fact-checking program and moving to Community Notes model

#388

Post by huijzer »

pests wrote: post #331
stronglikedan wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also not offensive in English, even though some virtue signalers insist on taking offense to it.

Nah it’s offensive. Just because you don’t take issue doesn’t mean it doesn’t hurt others.

Reminds me of:

Priest: “You have been found guilty by the elders of the town of uttering the name of our lord as so as a BLASPHEMER you are to be stoned to death.”

[…]

Priest: “BLASPHEMY! He said it again!”

Old man: “I don’t think it ought to be blasphemy. I just said ‘Jehova’”

Priest: “You said it again! You’re only making it worse!”

Old man: “Making it worse!? How can I make it worse!? Jehova, Jehova, Jenova!”

https://youtu.be/SYkbqzWVHZI

Re: Ending our third party fact-checking program and moving to Community Notes model

#389

Post by cryptonector »

davidw wrote: post #212
tptacek wrote: post #192

I'd like to hear an informed take from anybody who thinks that Facebook's fact-checkers were a better product feature than Community Notes. All of the articles I'm seeing about this online are ideological, but this feels like the kind of decision that should have been in the works for multiple quarters now, given how effective Notes have been, and how comically ineffective and off-putting fact-checkers have been. The…

The ideological bits are: * Dana White added to the board. * "Move our trust and safety and content moderation teams out of California, and our US content review to Texas. This will help remove the concern that biased employees are overly censoring content." - like people being in Texas makes them more objective?! The actual mechanisms of running a social media network at scale are tricky and I think most of us would…

GP was asking about how fact checking is better than community notes, but you're saying that Meta's community notes will be worse than fact checking, which may be but which is not responsive to GP's question.

Re: Ending our third party fact-checking program and moving to Community Notes model

#390

Post by nojvek »

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"

Isaac Asimov - Hitting the high notes even after 30 years from the pulpit.

Mark doing what Mark needs to do to keep that Meta stock elevated.

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