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My little sister's use of ChatGPT for homework is heartbreaking

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Re: My little sister's use of ChatGPT for homework is heartbreaking

#281

If you'd told people 50 years ago that "literacy" would decline to the level of the reddit poster's style of writing, with poor sentence structure and words in ALL CAPS, they'd be pretty shocked. Now it's just normal communication. Older people are shocked that young people can't do long division, or easily add a column of numbers mentally. I'm not saying LLMs won't negatively influence the next generation, but the n…

>If you'd told people 50 years ago that "literacy" would decline to the level of the reddit poster's style of writing, with poor sentence structure and words in ALL CAPS, they'd be pretty shocked. Now it's just normal communication.

I would argue that the people who would have written like 50 years ago just never had the opportunity or audience that people do today. Except maybe in a Letter to the Editor of a newspaper or something.

So many more people are expressing themselves in public than ever were able to 50 years ago so I think it just seems that people have become less literate than they were. So many YouTube comments and Facebook posts that never would have occurred 50 years ago.

It's a democratization of the broadcasting of expression more than literacy decline.

Re: My little sister's use of ChatGPT for homework is heartbreaking

#282

The most likely eventual outcome of ChatGPT (and similar software) will be the elimination of graded homework/coursework, and a renewed emphasis on traditional in-person tests and exams.

The people who created ChatGPT have very fancy educations. Do you think any of them didn’t have or didn’t do homework?

Many of the most expensive and "fancy" schools deemphasize homework and grades in early education.

Re: My little sister's use of ChatGPT for homework is heartbreaking

#283
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is tests/quizzes and especially standardized ones. They have never been good teaching tools, and teachers have been railroaded into using them because they provide a blunt way to measure outcomes at a population level. But real teaching is 1:1 and teachers have a lot of power, it's just stuff that doesn't scale and you can't mandate organizationally. But this has mostly always been the case. Trying to mea…

Tests/quizzes are good teaching tools. Students learn more effectively when they are frequently tested on the material. https://www.hubermanlab.com/episode/optimal-protocols-for-st...

> Tests/quizzes are good teaching tools.

I skimmed the linked material and that's not my conclusion. Practice tests are better teaching tools than just memorizing the material and then taking a real test, but on an absolute scale, I'm convinced that they're pretty terrible for most types of material.

Throughout my education I've come across countless people who could memorize the material and recite it with relative ease but they didn't have any intuitive understanding so they couldn't use that "knowledge" to solve real problems. Much like ChatGPT itself.

Equating good memorization and recall performance with good education and knowledge seems like a form of cargo culting to me, it's missing the essence of what makes knowledge powerful in the first place.

Re: My little sister's use of ChatGPT for homework is heartbreaking

#285
post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Parents that believe it is solely the school/teacher's job to educate their child. My sister works with kids on their speech at a school and she's said that it's _bad_ how many children can't read or tell you what letter their first name starts with. She says that the teachers are getting flack at parent-teacher meetings because of this, but those are things that their parents teach them! I thought the "kids are il…

I'm rising 3 kids (in France, I don't know if it changes much). We have banned TV, very heavily restricted phones, and we closely follow homework. I'm persuaded it makes a difference wrt parents that don't do that, but somehow isn't a sure fire way of being a "great parent".

We're in Canada; doing the same. But most of my kids' classmates are on YouTube all the time. The brainrot content is unavoidable and it's creating issues for my kids' socialization.

Re: My little sister's use of ChatGPT for homework is heartbreaking

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every study done on the topic of “people judging the stupidity of other people” always proves this comment incorrect. With or without AI, we have always thought we are of wildly above average intelligence and that “all the other people are brain dead zombies.” This is just a classic human bias since we don’t ever experience what goes on inside anyones head but ours. Everything is going to be just fine.

I don't even know how to respond to that.

You're being dramatic.

Re: My little sister's use of ChatGPT for homework is heartbreaking

#287
post #12

There's some grim humor in the fact that the poster reflects on his sister's use of chatgpt, and just ends on that point. I have to wonder if he decided to talk to her or his parents about the situation. I didn't see anything in the post to suggest it, just a "this next generation is cooked." Who cooked them is the question? Children won't raise themselves generally.

My daughter is only 1 and a half years old now, but my concern is more that she'll be implicitly competing with classmates that are using tools like this, whether we allow her to use them or not.

I believe uploading neural weights in the form factor of a reaction speed game will become the norm.

Imagine the token weights etc to live an an N dimensional embedding.

Consider a random 2D isometric projection, now imagine plotting (a subset of) the tokens on screen at their respective locations, with the background having patterns conveying the orientation of the projection.

Imagine tokens appearing FIFO, and 95% or so of the tokens at their correct position, and 5% at incorrect positions.

The user is expected to identify misplaced tokens in the projection.

Each the frame the perspective slowly changes.

Since we guarantee ~95% of the tokens on screen are correctly placed this enables the human to absorb their correct high dimensional location subconsciously.

Imagine this game is made a bit addictive.

Imagine eventually the user gets high scores and thus knows most of the coordinates of the token embeddings in a coordinate free way (no axes had to be drawn)

At that point all the information the ANN required is undisputedly present in the humans brain, absent how those coefficients are used. This is where the fun starts.

The alcorithm can calculate the likelihood of observing 2 tokens in a certain order. It can generate more probable pairs, this will correlate with the information in the brain.

For example imagine the user knows some spanish, and that the language model was multilingual. Suddenly the brain starts picking up the correlation between close juxtapositions of certain tokens, and their positions learnt from the computer game.

While playing and getting better scores in the game, the user starts noticing its own grammar and vocabulary improve, because the brain has been helped in better estimating next tokens...

People will be able to learn math, languages, programmnig languages, tables of chemistry, etc... with substantially less effort.

Re: My little sister's use of ChatGPT for homework is heartbreaking

#288
post #4

Waiting for those people who post the "how do you use LLMS for X" questions on HN to come here and explain how this is a good thing.

Would you be upset if in the 70s you found out your sister was using a calculator to check her math homework?

Seems like your pattern matching can have many false positives.

Re: My little sister's use of ChatGPT for homework is heartbreaking

#289

I have this problem too! I wrote up this system prompt I want to set on my daughters account. You’re welcome to try using it and let me know it goes. (When I made a new chatgpt account for her it wouldn’t load. I need to try to set it up again) Prompt: This is my 9th graders account. She has been trying to avoid learning or even thinking by copy and pasting homework and quiz questions into chatgpt and not even readin…

Block websites. What is stopping you from whitelisting websites she can visit?

> What is stopping you from whitelisting websites she can visit?

You're right. I have an anecdote though. My kid is a good student, does his homework, and does well on tests. He has a time-limited device he can use at home with a few whitelisted websites. But one of the services we allow him to use is Perplexity. He's a naturally inquisitive person and this is how he learns, so an AI is a perfect fit for when his parents don't have the answer to his question, or if he wants to ask detailed follow-ups. He's young enough that he doesn't have much homework (and we wouldn't let him use his device for it anyway), so cheating isn't as much of a concern yet. We do discuss it though, and will keep that conversation going as he ages.

This won't be solved by abstaining from AI entirely because a) kids will not always be under our control, so they need to learn how to self-regulate, and b) knowing how to properly (and ethically) harness AI is going to be more and more important to their future success.

Re: My little sister's use of ChatGPT for homework is heartbreaking

#290
post #159

I'm close to someone who teaches at a university, and they're making heavy use of in-room essays written in blue books. This ensures that the work is purely the students, but I think it also has the side-effect that the grader is also working manually. I kinda think maybe at earlier levels, most homework should be moved into the classroom and done on paper anyway? What's the point of homework if they're not going to…

That’s unfortunate. I got a BA, and while I often question its value, one thing I do think college taught me was how to distill complex ideas, integrate them, and then form my own complex ideas from what I’d learned. I’d only really fully grok the concepts I was writing about (and the ideas I was trying to convey) after hours of trying to splice things together, staring at my screen, and rewriting and reformulating.…

> relying on them to the exclusion of long form essays deprives students of the chance to really sit with their ideas

I think the crux of the issue is that professors want students to do the deep thinking you're talking about, but they know that if they base the course around writing papers, a bunch of the students aren't actually likely to do it.

But if you tell students that when they do the reading they should be asking themselves "What would the author of reading A think of reading B?" "Which of C or D do you find more convincing and why?" "How would you frame T in terms of S?", "What evidence does W cherry-pick an what do they ignore, and why?", and they know for some material the class discussion will look like that, and they'll be asked questions which both demand recall and synthesis in the blue book essays ... can they be nudged to do some of the thinking you're talking about before they see the specific question? Perhaps even using writing at the computer as a tool (but not necessarily as an output)?

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