My little sister's use of ChatGPT for homework is heartbreaking • Hacker News Board

Re: My little sister's use of ChatGPT for homework is heartbreaking

#251

Post by Leherenn » Mon, Jan 06, 2025, 7:42 PM UTC

dowager_dan99 wrote: post #190

abeppu wrote: post #159

I'm close to someone who teaches at a university, and they're making heavy use of in-room essays written in blue books. This ensures that the work is purely the students, but I think it also has the side-effect that the grader is also working manually. I kinda think maybe at earlier levels, most homework should be moved into the classroom and done on paper anyway? What's the point of homework if they're not going to…

If we flipped the lecture/homework system upside down it would first solve some of the major issues with how we deliver education, but as a side effect prevent the appearance of doing the work while really it's just the student mindlessly copying prompts and responses. Assign the material for outside the classroom. Use the in-person contact time to work through the problems, with a mix of small group, pairing and men…

I think this works well with at least somewhat interested students (like in university), but I'm not so sure before.

My experience when I was younger is that a significant proportion of students don't do anything outside of school. So you're trading not doing the homework with not reading the material. And then you'll essentially have to repeat the material during class hours, unless you're willing to leave half the class totally clueless. At least with the homework at home, the ones not doing anything are only penalising themselves.

I totally agree though that homework at home is dying. It already wasn't great before for a variety of reasons, and now it's basically totally useless.

Re: My little sister's use of ChatGPT for homework is heartbreaking

#252

Post by wyldberry » Mon, Jan 06, 2025, 7:43 PM UTC

abeppu wrote: post #159

I'm close to someone who teaches at a university, and they're making heavy use of in-room essays written in blue books. This ensures that the work is purely the students, but I think it also has the side-effect that the grader is also working manually. I kinda think maybe at earlier levels, most homework should be moved into the classroom and done on paper anyway? What's the point of homework if they're not going to…

In doing my masters, i've noticed a similar trend coming from TAs in technical programs.

Much more emphasis on "homework" being readings to prepare for lecture. Lecture to cover salient points, but then to reinforce with in person labs, and then the actual "lab" credit in an isolated environment with access to AI tooling network blocked.

I think AI is forcing us to think about what learning actually means, and to rethink how much the ability to think matters, what understanding means, and what knowledge we need to operate in today's world. It will take some getting used to.

Re: My little sister's use of ChatGPT for homework is heartbreaking

#253

Post by kevin_thibedeau » Mon, Jan 06, 2025, 7:45 PM UTC

jjice wrote: post #232

dcchambers wrote: post #219

I think one thing few are willing to admit is that a large blame for this can be placed on disinterested parents. Parents that believe it is solely the school/teacher's job to educate their child. When kids are at home, parents should be involved in the learning process. You don't have to be a helicopter and monitor everything, but you should take interest in the work your child is doing. If you check in at least onc…

> Parents that believe it is solely the school/teacher's job to educate their child. My sister works with kids on their speech at a school and she's said that it's _bad_ how many children can't read or tell you what letter their first name starts with. She says that the teachers are getting flack at parent-teacher meetings because of this, but those are things that their parents teach them! I thought the "kids are il…

When there were three television channels, children and adults found other things to do when there was nothing to watch. That's where you developed non-passive life skills.

Now TikTok gives a continuous dopamine hit tailored to their psych profile. Just click on the pictures like a proper trained ape.

Re: My little sister's use of ChatGPT for homework is heartbreaking

#254

Post by seanmcdirmid » Mon, Jan 06, 2025, 7:45 PM UTC

CamperBob2 wrote: post #180

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand this sentiment, even though it is common among Americans. Why is education seen as a competition between students, even in the younger grades? Oh wow, I thought Americans were super lax when it came to this, especially compared to more competitive educational systems like China. My kid is in second grade and hasn't gotten a real grade yet.

Oh wow, I thought Americans were super lax when it came to this It's hard to generalize here, as Americans are a heterogeneous bunch. Demographic subsets exist where education is seen as a vigorous competitive sport, where the goal is to achieve admission to the "right" college. The parents are as involved as the kids, usually for better but sometimes for worse. At the same time, among other groups of Americans, the…

Ya, I assume Americans are all over the map so to speak. Anyone who wants to go to MIT, however, has to start early.

Re: My little sister's use of ChatGPT for homework is heartbreaking

#255

Post by beardedmoose » Mon, Jan 06, 2025, 7:45 PM UTC

bilsbie wrote: post #223

I have this problem too! I wrote up this system prompt I want to set on my daughters account. You’re welcome to try using it and let me know it goes. (When I made a new chatgpt account for her it wouldn’t load. I need to try to set it up again) Prompt: This is my 9th graders account. She has been trying to avoid learning or even thinking by copy and pasting homework and quiz questions into chatgpt and not even readin…

Hell, I’d argue a similar prompt could be useful for a lot of people. I use something similar for coding and ask it not to provide direct code and more a guide on coding principals with source links if possible.

Re: My little sister's use of ChatGPT for homework is heartbreaking

#256

Post by bestouff » Mon, Jan 06, 2025, 7:47 PM UTC

jjice wrote: post #232

dcchambers wrote: post #219

I think one thing few are willing to admit is that a large blame for this can be placed on disinterested parents. Parents that believe it is solely the school/teacher's job to educate their child. When kids are at home, parents should be involved in the learning process. You don't have to be a helicopter and monitor everything, but you should take interest in the work your child is doing. If you check in at least onc…

> Parents that believe it is solely the school/teacher's job to educate their child. My sister works with kids on their speech at a school and she's said that it's _bad_ how many children can't read or tell you what letter their first name starts with. She says that the teachers are getting flack at parent-teacher meetings because of this, but those are things that their parents teach them! I thought the "kids are il…

I'm rising 3 kids (in France, I don't know if it changes much). We have banned TV, very heavily restricted phones, and we closely follow homework. I'm persuaded it makes a difference wrt parents that don't do that, but somehow isn't a sure fire way of being a "great parent".

Re: My little sister's use of ChatGPT for homework is heartbreaking

#257

Post by rtkwe » Mon, Jan 06, 2025, 7:48 PM UTC

frontporch wrote: post #155

moduspwnens14 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My daughter is only 1 and a half years old now, but my concern is more that she'll be implicitly competing with classmates that are using tools like this, whether we allow her to use them or not.

competing with what? your score doesnt vary based on others. i came here to laugh at this thread.. no different than calculators and google both of which were misused in the same way. and then people who are "worried" about it and use that as an excuse to do it themselves. and now you know why the tech industry sucks

> competing with what? your score doesnt vary based on others.

Grading on a curve is very much a thing. Rarer in lower levels but not completely unheard of.

Even if it weren't GPA is still used for ranking students for opportunities like college or summer programs with limited slots. The effect of GPT'd homework depends on how well they perform on the tests though but some classes are predominantly take home work or at least were when I was going through school.

Re: My little sister's use of ChatGPT for homework is heartbreaking

#258

Post by dylan604 » Mon, Jan 06, 2025, 7:48 PM UTC

beardedmoose wrote: post #255

bilsbie wrote: post #223

I have this problem too! I wrote up this system prompt I want to set on my daughters account. You’re welcome to try using it and let me know it goes. (When I made a new chatgpt account for her it wouldn’t load. I need to try to set it up again) Prompt: This is my 9th graders account. She has been trying to avoid learning or even thinking by copy and pasting homework and quiz questions into chatgpt and not even readin…

Hell, I’d argue a similar prompt could be useful for a lot of people. I use something similar for coding and ask it not to provide direct code and more a guide on coding principals with source links if possible.

How well has that worked for you? Sometimes just hearing other ideas helps get to a solution even if none of the ideas heard were the actual solution. Sometimes, just being forced to get out of the rut you're in at the time by being "forced" to stop to think about something else is all that's needed.

Re: My little sister's use of ChatGPT for homework is heartbreaking

#259

Post by greenavocado » Mon, Jan 06, 2025, 7:49 PM UTC

bilsbie wrote: post #223

I have this problem too! I wrote up this system prompt I want to set on my daughters account. You’re welcome to try using it and let me know it goes. (When I made a new chatgpt account for her it wouldn’t load. I need to try to set it up again) Prompt: This is my 9th graders account. She has been trying to avoid learning or even thinking by copy and pasting homework and quiz questions into chatgpt and not even readin…

Block websites. What is stopping you from whitelisting websites she can visit?

Re: My little sister's use of ChatGPT for homework is heartbreaking

#260

Post by el_benhameen » Mon, Jan 06, 2025, 7:50 PM UTC

abeppu wrote: post #159

I'm close to someone who teaches at a university, and they're making heavy use of in-room essays written in blue books. This ensures that the work is purely the students, but I think it also has the side-effect that the grader is also working manually. I kinda think maybe at earlier levels, most homework should be moved into the classroom and done on paper anyway? What's the point of homework if they're not going to…

That’s unfortunate. I got a BA, and while I often question its value, one thing I do think college taught me was how to distill complex ideas, integrate them, and then form my own complex ideas from what I’d learned.

I’d only really fully grok the concepts I was writing about (and the ideas I was trying to convey) after hours of trying to splice things together, staring at my screen, and rewriting and reformulating. Blue book exams have their place, but relying on them to the exclusion of long form essays deprives students of the chance to really sit with their ideas.

(I acknowledge that this is a tough situation for the teachers and that many students are going to bullshit their way through with AI slop if given the chance.)