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US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

theguardian.com

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Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#381

Post by bb88 »

dessimus wrote: post #344
bb88 wrote: post #177

IRL I knew someone who was charged with child sexual abuse. He went to prison awaiting trial, but the prosecution dropped the charges before it got there. He was released and went about his life. Meanwhile his mug shot photo in the local paper was the number one google search result for his name. And then it reached syndication for other news sites as well. Ideally those news paper articles should be updated to say t…

Just because charges were dropped doesn't mean they were innocent. It could mean there wasn't enough reliable witness testimony, physical evidence, or the evidence was tainted in a way that the prosecution did not believe they would get a conviction in a court of law.

Here's a scenario.

You get into an argument. The other guy is a cop it turns out. He arrests you for a trumped up charge and makes sure to tell the media. Child sexual abuse is the charge.

Now what?

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#382

Post by datavirtue »

WalterBright wrote: post #144
datavirtue wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speeding tickets are not criminal.

In the 1960s, the Air Force decided that they had too many candidates for pilots, and to winnow it down all candidates with a speeding ticket were disqualified. I've often felt this was unwise, as you want fighter pilots to be aggressive.

Yeah, but you don't want them getting caught.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#383

Post by MaxikCZ »

bb88 wrote: post #359
xboxnolifes wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why they said updated. It means to change the laws.

But again, that's not libel. Libel is publishing something untrue on purpose. Everything published was true and is still true today. He was arrested and alleged of a crime. Requiring media to update every news story they publish is untenable.

Then maybe we should change the law that defines what is and isnt libel.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#384

Post by teddyh »

watwut wrote: post #357
teddyh wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has become much more common in the last, say, 10 years, than it ever was. It used to be an extreme last resort, now people talk about it like it’s the obvious first step. Discussed previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32223003 >

Hacker news thread is not exactly a sociological proof. In that thread, people talk in abstract and no one reading it has any way to figure out a.) what happened in anecdotes they talk about b.) whether such situations are more frequent then in the past. Besides, hacker news is a place where imaginary past gets written about all the time.

I was not trying to prove my assertion; I was just making an observation based on my personal experience.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#385

Post by gjm11 »

smcin wrote: post #377
gruez wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>[1] I did some crude arithmetic on the figures at https://www.sentencingproject.org/app/uploads/2022/08/Americ ... and got an estimate that 108% of black men in the US have a criminal record. That seems unlikely to be correct :-) How are you calculating the proportion of black men with criminal records? The pdf mentions that black men are 6x more likely to be incarcerated , but that's not the same as having a crimin…

That link doesn't point directly to data, only an expired event. What is the link please? For state-level data, did you mean: https://www.sentencingproject.org/research/detailed-state-da...

That's very weird. My comment referred to this link: https://www.sentencingproject.org/app/uploads/2022/08/Americ... and the person replying to it quoted what I wrote but changed the link. (Presumably by mistake; I can't think of any reason why someone would do it maliciously.) Anyway, the thing earlier in this paragraph is what I was pointing at.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#386

Post by anticensor »

waiwai933 wrote: post #129
tokai wrote: post #27

I know Library of Congress has a newspaper database. But does anyone know if newspapers are covered by mandatory deposit in the US? Many European countries archive all national newspapers, printed or digital, so they won't be lost for posterity if deleted by their publisher. To me it seems unreasonable to require publishers to keep an immutable record. Shouldn't be forced by law to keep up your blog posts. National L…

The US has a very weak legal deposit scheme compared to e.g. the UK. IIRC, legal deposit is only required where the author applies for copyright registration, so it’s extremely unlikely that a newspaper would be subject to the legal deposit scheme.

They don't get public procurement announcement ads either? If so, an agency would get a deposit as a proof-of-advertisement.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#387

Post by anticensor »

FireBeyond wrote: post #83
Barrin92 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>One is not entitled to a clean social or occupational reputation In plenty of jurisdictions people are entitled precisely to that. Here in Germany the entire basis for punishment is a right to full reintegration after you have been punished . A just community punishes once , not five hundred times over and that goes both for the people and the state (which are the same thing in a democracy, the latter punishes on be…

I believe it's Scandinavia, or maybe Denmark, where there is no punishment for escaping or attempting to escape prison. The courts, community has decided the need to be free is a fundamental human drive, and cannot be punished. Sure, when you're caught, you'll be taken back to complete your sentence, but you won't get additional punishment for the effort.

I've heard it's the same in Germany.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#388

Post by anticensor »

WalterBright wrote: post #144
datavirtue wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speeding tickets are not criminal.

In the 1960s, the Air Force decided that they had too many candidates for pilots, and to winnow it down all candidates with a speeding ticket were disqualified. I've often felt this was unwise, as you want fighter pilots to be aggressive.

So they looked at traffic infractions record, too; interesting.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#389

Post by dessimus »

bb88 wrote: post #381
dessimus wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because charges were dropped doesn't mean they were innocent. It could mean there wasn't enough reliable witness testimony, physical evidence, or the evidence was tainted in a way that the prosecution did not believe they would get a conviction in a court of law.

Here's a scenario. You get into an argument. The other guy is a cop it turns out. He arrests you for a trumped up charge and makes sure to tell the media. Child sexual abuse is the charge. Now what?

Sue the police department for false arrest odds are good it would make the media.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#390

Post by smsm42 »

worik wrote: post #180
smsm42 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the prisoners should be paid at least minimum wage so we don't have the state to pay to lock people up and then some private corporation to profit off slave labor. Minimum wage is supposed to cover sustainable food, shelter, clothing and other basic physical needs (leaving aside the question whether it really does, it is the intent). The prisoner has these basic physical needs already taken care of. Therefore, it m…

> Minimum wage is supposed to cover sustainable food, shelter, clothing and other basic physical needs * Many people locked up (in my country) are their families breadwinners * Many would if they could pay compensation, and victims would, if they could, receive it and improve their lives * Many leave prison with nothing. The ones not in the first clause often do not have families, nor friends left on the outside * Pr…

If we had surefire ways to make people better than they went it, why deploy them in prisons? People pay thousands upon thousands for things like that voluntarily. The problem is, there's no such way. There's no way to "make" a person better. A person can become better because they strived to it and worked on it, and it can even happen in prison - it's as good place as any to hit the rock bottom and realize it's time to change - but if you think you can force it to happen, you are deeply deluded.

> People (our fellow citizens, our comrades)

Our fellow citizens, our comrades did the crime to earn prison. Retaliatory and precautionary aspect is as important as confinement itself. Of course, it should be moderated both by the size of the crime and by the culture, but it still exists.

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