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US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

theguardian.com

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Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#81

Post by blackeyeblitzar »

CSMastermind wrote: post #72
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #53

This is a huge disservice to the public. Lots of offenders are repeat offenders, and the public needs to know who they are. Or maybe someone just wants to look up an old news story they remember. More fundamentally, this type of action is just a manipulation of the public and not journalism, which should be a neutral way of sharing information.

No just lots but almost all. 63% of violent offenders reoffend but that actually undercounts the amount of crimes that are caused by repeat offenders because there are some people offending 10+ times. A three strikes rule would eliminate nearly half of all violent crime because nearly half of violent crime is committed by people who have already been convicted of 3+ other violent crimes.

In the Seattle area there’s a huge trend of reoffending criminals performing larger crimes as time goes, because they face no real consequences. This is happening because activist judges, who typically run unopposed and don’t face consequences themselves, are releasing dangerous criminals back into the public. As a recent example, an activist judge released a teen who committed felony robbery back into the public, against prosecutors’ pleas, and he ended up stabbing and disemboweling another teen.

https://komonews.com/news/local/everett-lions-park-stabbing-...

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#82

Post by Yeul »

evujumenuk wrote: post #37

I understand this is the general policy in a few places, like Germany. The general idea seems to be that it is more beneficial to a society if criminals are given a viable avenue to lead non-criminal lives again, with the alternative being people going "ah fuck it, I guess I'm a criminal now". I'm surprised at this concept spreading in the US, since the system would generally benefit from having perpetual perpetrator…

Before things like the FBI and the telegraph it was quite common for Americans to find a new life in another state. You could be married in New York but nobody in Montana would know unless they actively started an investigation. The world has become a village.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#83

Post by FireBeyond »

Barrin92 wrote: post #76
add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're describing punishment by the state. One is entitled to move on from a fine or imprisonment. One is not entitled to a clean social or occupational reputation. There's a good reason those consequences exist.

>One is not entitled to a clean social or occupational reputation In plenty of jurisdictions people are entitled precisely to that. Here in Germany the entire basis for punishment is a right to full reintegration after you have been punished . A just community punishes once , not five hundred times over and that goes both for the people and the state (which are the same thing in a democracy, the latter punishes on be…

I believe it's Scandinavia, or maybe Denmark, where there is no punishment for escaping or attempting to escape prison.

The courts, community has decided the need to be free is a fundamental human drive, and cannot be punished.

Sure, when you're caught, you'll be taken back to complete your sentence, but you won't get additional punishment for the effort.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#84

Post by GuB-42 »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #17
janice1999 wrote: post #2

> One in three U.S. adults has been arrested by age 23. Does that seem crazy to anyone else? I'm in Ireland and can't think of one person in my extended family and friends that has any interaction with the police beyond routine insurance/DUI checkpoints or reporting incidents like car accidents.

You can figure this for anything, and prepare to be shocked. The variables are the number of incidents per period, the population during that period, and the expected duration an incident could occur. For example, in San Francisco, there are about 4700 car related injuries and deaths per year; about 800000 people; and the life expectancy is high at 83. This gives you 41 years for a cumulative 25% chance to have been…

> For example, in San Francisco, there are about 4700 car related injuries and deaths per year; about 800000 people; and the life expectancy is high at 83. This gives you 41 years for a cumulative 25% chance to have been involved in your first car injury.

It doesn't account for the fact that people can be injured more than once. Taking that into account, the number would be closer to 50 years. It also makes agency more relevant if most of the injuries are concentrated in a smaller group of people (ex: bikers).

> The discount for panopticon approved safe driving is a pathetic 5-10%!

Well, in France, the maximum discount for safe driving is officially -50%, and the maximum penalty for unsafe driving is +250%, calculated based on your history of at-fault accidents. That's a 7x difference! Not only that but if you get into too many accidents, the insurance company may cancel your contract, usually forcing you to go for insurance companies that specialize in high risk customers, which are even more expensive. I don't know about the insurance system where you live, but a 5-10% difference seems crazy.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#85

Post by FireBeyond »

CSMastermind wrote: post #72
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #53

This is a huge disservice to the public. Lots of offenders are repeat offenders, and the public needs to know who they are. Or maybe someone just wants to look up an old news story they remember. More fundamentally, this type of action is just a manipulation of the public and not journalism, which should be a neutral way of sharing information.

No just lots but almost all. 63% of violent offenders reoffend but that actually undercounts the amount of crimes that are caused by repeat offenders because there are some people offending 10+ times. A three strikes rule would eliminate nearly half of all violent crime because nearly half of violent crime is committed by people who have already been convicted of 3+ other violent crimes.

> A three strikes rule would eliminate nearly half of all violent crime because nearly half of violent crime is committed by people who have already been convicted of 3+ other violent crimes.

LMAO. Twenty-nine states have a three strikes rule, and their violent crime hasn't decreased by half.

Source: https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/three-strikes...

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#86

Post by FireBeyond »

wat10000 wrote: post #70
Filligree wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, I think the original sentence was accurate. If that had been a cyclist instead of a car then they’d be dead. The speed limit is a limit, not a requirement. Driving fast in conditions where you can hydroplane is absolutely reckless.

Restricted access highway, no cyclists allowed or present. I don't think “reckless” is the right word. Clueless, really. I didn’t know there was a problem until I lost traction. Whatever you want to call it, do you really think that’s worth a criminal charge? Possibly destroying my livelihood over this? Do you think the possibility of criminal charges is what stops me from doing it again, versus the potential damage…

You hit another vehicle, at excessive speed, in poor weather. Fortune meant that the occupants of that other vehicle were not injured or worse.

Writing it off as "Oh, I was just clueless" is a little downplaying.

Yes, it's a one off instance, but the stakes in vehicles can be very high, hence our requirements for licensing and insurance.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#87

Post by wat10000 »

Filligree wrote: post #80
wat10000 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Restricted access highway, no cyclists allowed or present. I don't think “reckless” is the right word. Clueless, really. I didn’t know there was a problem until I lost traction. Whatever you want to call it, do you really think that’s worth a criminal charge? Possibly destroying my livelihood over this? Do you think the possibility of criminal charges is what stops me from doing it again, versus the potential damage…

I was taught not to drive fast on roads like that, specifically due to the risk of hydroplaning. Significantly slower than the likely speed limit, unless the speed limit on your highway was 60 kmph. You never do know how good your braking action is going to be, so preemptively slowing down is the only option. I don’t believe your driving was safe. I also don’t believe you were taught driving correctly, assuming you’r…

From your use of “kmph” I’m going to guess that you live in a country with decent driver training.

I’m in the US, where driver training goes just slightly beyond checking if the candidate is capable of fogging a mirror. I learned in a northern state so we learned a lot about how to deal with ice and snow, but I don’t think there was anything about rain. If there was, I’d forgotten it in the 20+ years since I last had any training or check.

I agree with you that my driving was unsafe and I wasn’t taught well. I don’t think my behavior even came close to criminal.

I am confused about your assessment of my charge. You previously said it was correct. Now you think it shouldn’t have been a criminal charge?

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#88

Post by FireBeyond »

rychco wrote: post #48
janice1999 wrote: post #2

> One in three U.S. adults has been arrested by age 23. Does that seem crazy to anyone else? I'm in Ireland and can't think of one person in my extended family and friends that has any interaction with the police beyond routine insurance/DUI checkpoints or reporting incidents like car accidents.

The prison-industrial complex in the United States encourages this. While less than 10% of prisoners are in “for-profit” prisons, there’s a large industry of private companies beyond this that profit off federal prisons; in addition to providing cheap prison labor or goods made by prison laborers (AKA modern slavery)

Many of those private prisons also have clauses with their contracts that the city/county/whatever is required to pay per bed, regardless of occupancy. "If we're paying for it, might as well use it".

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#89

Post by Filligree »

wat10000 wrote: post #87
Filligree wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was taught not to drive fast on roads like that, specifically due to the risk of hydroplaning. Significantly slower than the likely speed limit, unless the speed limit on your highway was 60 kmph. You never do know how good your braking action is going to be, so preemptively slowing down is the only option. I don’t believe your driving was safe. I also don’t believe you were taught driving correctly, assuming you’r…

From your use of “kmph” I’m going to guess that you live in a country with decent driver training. I’m in the US, where driver training goes just slightly beyond checking if the candidate is capable of fogging a mirror. I learned in a northern state so we learned a lot about how to deal with ice and snow, but I don’t think there was anything about rain. If there was, I’d forgotten it in the 20+ years since I last had…

Well, I originally missed the “criminal” bit. I was agreeing that it was reckless. A misdemeanour wouldn’t be considered a criminal charge where I live; it goes through a similar system, but has far fewer implications.

The original fine seems reasonable.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#90

Post by bookofjoe »

wat10000 wrote: post #65
1over137 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a record of such a minor infraction doesn’t seem to me a problem, in and of itself. The problem would be if such records were public, available to potential employers, etc. If the records were private to the courts, that’d be something else. Not sure how it is in USA.

It’s a difficult balance. On one hand, privacy is important. On the other hand, visibility into the system is an important check on the power of law enforcement. It’s especially important for arrests; you really, really do not want the police to be allowed to secretly jail people. But it’s important for other things too. In this example, if the police were using rollerblading citations as a way to harass a certain gr…

So you're saying I should have paid the fine and had the charge recorded, creating a criminal record for myself?
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