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US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

theguardian.com

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Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#321

Post by in-pursuit »

danpalmer wrote: post #318
in-pursuit wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were they convicted? It seems irresponsible to let someone strongly suspected of harming children to continue to have close contact with children. “Innocent until proven guilty” is a criminal justice concept. It actually doesn’t apply to civil matters.

I don't think the conviction matters to the point. They were convicted, but my point is that a suspicion that causes an investigation should probably warrant telling those who could be at risk, even if the investigation ends up going nowhere. Not sure what you mean about the civil matter, CSAM offences are criminal, so I'd expect "innocent until proven guilty" to apply in this case. If you mean that for other civil m…

I think I misunderstood your point. It sounded like you were arguing against telling the scout group prior to the conviction, because they were innocent until proven guilty. But from your follow up, it sounds like you agree with telling the scout group prior to his conviction. In that case, I agree with you.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#322

Post by ternnoburn »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #94
cynicalkane wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's generally the disadvantaged and poor who get hit for low-level, non-violent stuff.

Are they the ones also committing more of them statistically - is that why (or are you saying they are targeted)? And if so why is that the case - there are plenty of people who are disadvantaged and poor and don’t commit crimes. Look at various immigrant minority groups for example.

[flagged]

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#323

Post by ternnoburn »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #221
rafram wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, so the US incarceration rate is almost five times the global average.

Yes but the US is a safer place to live and conduct business than most of the world. And it has a population that’s far more diverse than any other country. Looking at this metric requires context. And it could be that these are great numbers for what you get in return.

The US is not particularly safe. Various indices put it well below other countries -- in the top half, for sure, but it's hardly a safe place.

You'll have to supply evidence that the US is safe, as that's not self evident.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#324

Post by nyolfen »

whoitwas wrote: post #317
nyolfen wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the US police and prisons are directly derived from slave patrols. This is history and factual. and human rights are derived from feudal rights. okay, and? is this just supposed to make you feel bad with scary words? > Recidivism rates for people incarcerated more than 6 months is something like 66% for one year post release. this sounds very much like you are mixing up cause and effect. is it surprising that so…

I'm sorry if words scare you. The prison system is a direct continuation of slavery in the US. I'm not sure what you're analogy attempts to prove. My point on recidivism is that US jails focus on punitive rather than rehabilitative justice.

there is no such thing as rehabilitative justice, which is just secularized christian theology of redemption; there is only keeping dangerous or destructive people away from the rest of us. if they manage to reform themselves all the better, but the stats don't indicate any persistent institutional success despite decades of effort and rotating fashions. the thing that actually brought crime down after its tremendous mid-century spike is mass incarceration, ie taking the pareto tail out of circulation

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#325

Post by ironmagma »

karaterobot wrote: post #199

I'm sympathetic to amending articles related to people who were accused of crimes they didn't commit, and were later acquitted or had those charges dropped—that's a matter of correcting the record. I disagree with destroying the historical record itself, if the expunged stories were factual accounts of real events. Those things ought to be immutable. Journalists engaged in real journalism have special protections bec…

I know someone who was (in my opinion, clearly) taken in to the witness protection program. That’s the only time I’ve seen every trace of a person disappear. Yes, there are a few stray dangling references to that person in a few documents I found. But if their life is legitimately threatened by an adversary, I can be sympathetic to having the records expunged.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#326

Post by bb88 »

Ferret7446 wrote: post #294
bb88 wrote: post #177

IRL I knew someone who was charged with child sexual abuse. He went to prison awaiting trial, but the prosecution dropped the charges before it got there. He was released and went about his life. Meanwhile his mug shot photo in the local paper was the number one google search result for his name. And then it reached syndication for other news sites as well. Ideally those news paper articles should be updated to say t…

I think libel laws should be updated, so entities are compelled to correct the record when requested. News media have gotten away with publishing "well we thought it was true at the time" (or "we didn't say it, we said someone else said it") for too long.

There was an arrest. The alleged crime was published -- but since it was alleged, the news outlet doesn't have to prove it was true, they were reporting on what was alleged by the police. So libel laws had little to do with it.

It's possible the police "juiced" the story in the media, only then to try to sweep it under the rug when it didn't play out the way they were hoping. Or maybe the police thought it was all true, but the victim recanted when questioned about inconsistencies.

Whatever happened afterwards, it didn't make the papers. There's no conviction, just the arrest and allegations.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#327

Post by yladiz »

pvaldes wrote: post #277
cj wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article isn’t strictly talking about prisoners. In the example in the article, a kid vandalized a tombstone in a graveyard, and can’t find a job years later.

Hiding it is the wrong way. Nobody cares about kids having stupid ideas. Erasing the entry closes the opportunity of providing a reasonable explanation and showing repent, that in fact could help highlight the candidate among other. If employers still care... is a red flag. The case tells about a person that 1) has anger problems, 2) never mastered any skills valued by employers, and 3) never cultured friends wanting…

> Erasing the entry closes the opportunity of providing a reasonable explanation and showing repent, that in fact could help highlight the candidate among other.

If someone does a crime, goes to jail or does whatever punishment is mandated by a court, have they not already “repented”?

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#328

Post by desert_rue »

ggreer wrote: post #220
cj wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article isn’t strictly talking about prisoners. In the example in the article, a kid vandalized a tombstone in a graveyard, and can’t find a job years later.

I'll be honest, I want to know more about the monument vandal. The article mentions that after graduating high school, a man "became rowdy with some friends and broke a small stone monument".[1] If the reason he couldn't get a job was that every employer googled his name, discovered what he did, and decided not to hire him, then clearly his actions were something that most people would want to know. If it was as inco…

I have lived in an area of the US where a high portion of the population regularly attends church. I do not attend church. I noticed that when people found out about my lack of religion early in our acquaintance I was judged harshly for not being a believer. If they got to know me first, then they were okay with me by the time the subject of religion came up. Was I a bad person for hiding my lack of faith?

The US has such a patchwork of reporting systems around crimes and convictions, and there are several workarounds to avoid having bad things surfacing. So there are likely already people around you who have secrets but are living decent lives now. We all have those things about ourselves we don’t discuss and this is the social lubricant that keeps our relationships going.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#329

Post by jazzyjackson »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #310
jazzyjackson wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bro has friends in high places bro that's why there's no evidence Does the victim have a name, or was that memory holed too?

"Magnus Nordenmark" is the name used by the tabloids. https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/250492078/sven-magnus-no... has the right date of death, and gives a grave site of plot SO 33 5756 in Solna Cemetery, Stockholm. (I don't know how to verify this without actually visiting the cemetery.) You could have looked this up yourself.

My google fu aint what it used to be, and when I google 'Sven Magnus Nordenmark' my own comment right above this one is the top hit.

With the death date I was able to find https://sv.metapedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Wallner and its references including http://web.archive.org/web/20140428113854/http://www.natione... which is a detailed review of the whole affair. These are far right / nationalist sources but I don't see that as a reason to disbelieve them, the whole thing sounds a lot more plausible if you are one to believe that a court would let a guy off on self defense if the eyewitnesses painted the victim as a nazi who picked a fight.

If it's misinformation I guess I'm participating in resurfacing these sources on a highly indexed website, but I don't mind being able to add context to somebody's accusation of murder. Nothing catches my interest more than a good wiki edit war.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#330

Post by hulitu »

bb88 wrote: post #177

IRL I knew someone who was charged with child sexual abuse. He went to prison awaiting trial, but the prosecution dropped the charges before it got there. He was released and went about his life. Meanwhile his mug shot photo in the local paper was the number one google search result for his name. And then it reached syndication for other news sites as well. Ideally those news paper articles should be updated to say t…

> Ideally those news paper articles should be updated

They cannot do this, their reputation is at stake. I've seen very few newspapers who recognised they made a failure.

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