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US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

theguardian.com

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Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#261

Post by thoutsnark »

CSMastermind wrote: post #72
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #53

This is a huge disservice to the public. Lots of offenders are repeat offenders, and the public needs to know who they are. Or maybe someone just wants to look up an old news story they remember. More fundamentally, this type of action is just a manipulation of the public and not journalism, which should be a neutral way of sharing information.

No just lots but almost all. 63% of violent offenders reoffend but that actually undercounts the amount of crimes that are caused by repeat offenders because there are some people offending 10+ times. A three strikes rule would eliminate nearly half of all violent crime because nearly half of violent crime is committed by people who have already been convicted of 3+ other violent crimes.

Which suggests rehab might be better than prison for getting these people to give up violence.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#262

Post by BurningFrog »

bdangubic wrote: post #215
BurningFrog wrote: post #208

I'd feel better about a "right to comment": So instead of deleting the record of my arrest, I could add some kind of comment explaining that I was not convicted in the end.

rebuttals are never read by anyone. there are numerous examples of this like in our modern age a completely bogus story will “go viral” and will be shared / read by millions and millions while a retraction will go completely unnoticed. even more serious, bogus scientific studies like the one that started the whole “vaccines cause autism” while fully disputed cannot be undone with a retraction/rebuttal

In my imagined system, the rebuttal/comment is displayed right next to the original story.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#263

Post by _DeadFred_ »

Yeul wrote: post #82
evujumenuk wrote: post #37

I understand this is the general policy in a few places, like Germany. The general idea seems to be that it is more beneficial to a society if criminals are given a viable avenue to lead non-criminal lives again, with the alternative being people going "ah fuck it, I guess I'm a criminal now". I'm surprised at this concept spreading in the US, since the system would generally benefit from having perpetual perpetrator…

Before things like the FBI and the telegraph it was quite common for Americans to find a new life in another state. You could be married in New York but nobody in Montana would know unless they actively started an investigation. The world has become a village.

The US used to believe in second chances. Now it believes in maximum retribution. Unless you are big business. Then not only will you get a second chance, but the government will fund it.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#264

Post by nyolfen »

EasyMark wrote: post #243
eadmund wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are private prisons in the US that benefit from more prisoners. So do public prisons! Their employees — and those employee’s unions — want to make money just as much as anyone. I don’t think that public vs. private is material here.

and a lot overestimate the percentage private prison systems greatly. However, I think systems like Alabama that abuse prisoners to output widgets for corporations should be dealt with by the Feds as well. It's clearly cruel and unusual punishment. It's a complicated issue but calling prisoners "slaves" is a far left talking point that they continuously use with no nuance allowed.

that labor is not compelled and is in fact a privilege; they are given absurdly low wages, but the jobs are still desirable vs sitting in a cell. misbehavior results in privilege revocation.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#265

Post by bko »

scarab92 wrote: post #252
bko wrote: post #219

I wish newspapers were more concerned about being an objective system of record rather than trying to push social goals by helping rewrite history. They should post follow-ups for those wrongly convicted or after the fact caveats but completely memory holeing news stories strikes me as deeply disturbing

I would like them to refrain from naming people until/unless they are actually convicted. Heck, I would probably go a step further and update defamation laws to make publishing allegations (legal or otherwise) considered equivalent to making allegations. Far too many lives have been ruined by media “just reporting on allegations”

Or they should just report newsworthy public items in an unbiased way and let people decide

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#266

Post by jgalt212 »

Brybry wrote: post #250
jgalt212 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can argue it's involuntary servitude instead of slavery but to most people that's a meaningless distinction. The purchase and sale of humans, or the lack of such transactions is a meaningless distinction?

Yes, it's my opinion that it's meaningless pedantry to argue involuntary servitude is not included in the definition of slavery when used in casual speech on a forum. I don't believe there's a need to soften language to attempt to weaken the narrative of a "prison slavery system". If one is a proponent of forced labor for convicts then just say so: plenty of people will agree (and plenty will disagree).

Reminds me of the progressives trying to say words are violent just like fists, knives, and bullets are. But we're all vibes these days, and no science or empiricism.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#267

Post by nyolfen »

whoitwas wrote: post #253
jgalt212 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the prison slavery system. extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Where is the enslavement?

In the US police and prisons are directly derived from slave patrols. This is history and factual. In prison and jail inmates work for rates like $.25 an hour. Many places in the south prison inmates are contracted out to work minimum wage jobs and denied parole. Recidivism rates for people incarcerated more than 6 months is something like 66% for one year post release. There are private prisons that benefit from mor…

> In the US police and prisons are directly derived from slave patrols. This is history and factual.

and human rights are derived from feudal rights. okay, and? is this just supposed to make you feel bad with scary words?

> Recidivism rates for people incarcerated more than 6 months is something like 66% for one year post release.

this sounds very much like you are mixing up cause and effect. is it surprising that someone who commits more serious crimes is more likely to commit further crimes?

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#268

Post by _DeadFred_ »

jgalt212 wrote: post #198
Brybry wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to sibling comments about the 13th amendment's exception clause (which is what legally allows forced prison labor[1]): forced prison labor has been a state-level ballot issue in recent years. Colorado voted to abolish slavery and involuntary servitude as punishment for crime in 2018 (though enforcement is reportedly poor). [2][3] In other states voters have upheld forced labor[4] but sometimes it's because of…

> You can argue it's involuntary servitude instead of slavery but to most people that's a meaningless distinction. The purchase and sale of humans, or the lack of such transactions is a meaningless distinction?

Prisons routinely lease out prison labor.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#269

Post by _DeadFred_ »

jgalt212 wrote: post #195
nashashmi wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slave is sometimes also referred to as captured person or captive. An imprisoned person is a captive.

But there's no purchase or sale of a human. So where's the slavery?

Prison labor is not limited to inside prisons:

https://apnews.com/article/prison-to-plate-inmate-labor-inve...

Your labor should not have financial considerations to the prison. You taking a sick day should not risk punishment up to and included increased security points and should not impact any prison employees pay/bonus (COs/AWs/Ws often get bonus' based on inmate labor metrics). Security points are the 'nice sanitized' way penal systems threaten violence on inmates. If you get points you go to a more dangerous yard where your safety will be threatened and you will get hurt. Anything that can incur security points is a implicit threat of violence against inmates. Inmates should not be threatened with violence for taking sick days/losing a non-prison job. Inmates jobs should not include the possibility of overtime because inmates CAN NOT REFUSE it. Inmates should not be threatened with violence (security points) if they do not want to work overtime of need a sick day.

Inmate jobs should not include zero hour jobs (jobs where the schedule constantly changes and you are not guaranteed any hours) because inmates CAN NOT control their schedules and it works out to be a nightmare for them logistics wise. For example leading to inabilities to file legal mail (inability to schedule around mail room hours), missed meals (chow hall hours are fixed with almost no accommodation other than SHU/medical meals), excessive isolation during transfers, missed 'move times' resulting in no personal recreation time, etc.

Re: US newspapers are deleting old crime stories, offering subjects a 'clean slate'

#270

Post by defrost »

nyolfen wrote: post #267
whoitwas wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US police and prisons are directly derived from slave patrols. This is history and factual. In prison and jail inmates work for rates like $.25 an hour. Many places in the south prison inmates are contracted out to work minimum wage jobs and denied parole. Recidivism rates for people incarcerated more than 6 months is something like 66% for one year post release. There are private prisons that benefit from mor…

> In the US police and prisons are directly derived from slave patrols. This is history and factual. and human rights are derived from feudal rights. okay, and? is this just supposed to make you feel bad with scary words? > Recidivism rates for people incarcerated more than 6 months is something like 66% for one year post release. this sounds very much like you are mixing up cause and effect. is it surprising that so…

"Crims are going to crim again" is likely the shallowest take possible in such discussions.

What's relevant here is comparing different prison systems wrt Recidivism.

eg: Nine out of 10 South African criminals reoffend, while in Finland it’s 1 in 3. This is why

https://theconversation.com/nine-out-of-10-south-african-cri...

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