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Miles Davis – blind listening test

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Re: Miles Davis – blind listening test

#41

Post by jamestc »

It's interesting that this sort of thing is seen as a guy slagging records rather than a man just giving his (educated and experienced) opinion, like many others who are dedicated to their craft tend to do.

We can't be that bogged down with fake sincerity/showmanship that this is seen as novel or particularly harsh, can we? I don't know. There's nothing pompous about this. He sounds like me when I listen to a thing or read a thing or watch a thing, though I'll feel a little guilt about thinking those things at times since I haven't exactly reached Miles Davis status.

Re: Miles Davis – blind listening test

#42

Post by joydeepdg »

gruseom wrote: post #37
joydeepdg wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the points you make, but I really don't see anything but (unscientific) opinions in the linked article. This article says nothing about why Miles was a good businessman or expound on his leadership skills. All it gives us is insight into his taste in composition styles. That, coupled with the fact that music is a highly unscientific endeavor and the reasons he gives for disliking some of the works might…

Lord help us if everything unscientific is useless.

On the contrary, anything unscientific is great. I am a musician myself and I find proof based scientific discussions very claustrophobic at times.

All I am trying to say is, in this case, the article is a bunch of opinion from a Jazz musician about fellow Jazz musicians and bands. How does this fit in with other HN threads?

I would say that something like Frank Zappa on censorship [1] [2] is much more suited to HN discussion than this link.

[1] http://www.joesapt.net/superlink/shrg99-529/p51.html#fztesti...

[2] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ISil7IHzxc

Re: Miles Davis – blind listening test

#43

Post by VMG »

klodolph wrote: post #13

Here's the flipside. Some people are never satisfied with the work of others, and it's exactly this dissatisfaction that can drive them to hone their own endeavors. Obviously, Miles Davis doesn't hate music and it's not as simple as saying his expectations are too high. You can tell by the way he reviews these things that when he listens to these records, he hears them as a jumble of good bits, missed opportunities,…

To bring it closer to a HN topic: if you look at any successful software product in depth, there are flaws and things you'd do more elegantly. We love to hate things like php and C++ even if they are objectively successful.

Re: Miles Davis – blind listening test

#44

Post by gruseom »

joydeepdg wrote: post #42
gruseom wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lord help us if everything unscientific is useless.

On the contrary, anything unscientific is great. I am a musician myself and I find proof based scientific discussions very claustrophobic at times. All I am trying to say is, in this case, the article is a bunch of opinion from a Jazz musician about fellow Jazz musicians and bands. How does this fit in with other HN threads? I would say that something like Frank Zappa on censorship [1] [2] is much more suited to HN d…

How does this fit in with other HN threads?

But not everything ought to fit in! The mandate is simply to be interesting and not lame.

I'm over my meta quota now.

p.s. I like your use of the word 'claustrophobic' there. Very nice.

Re: Miles Davis – blind listening test

#45

Post by zoul »

jerf wrote: post #10

Out of curiousity, what is leading people to upvote this? It's a guy I've heard of but don't particularly listen to slagging on a whole bunch of other guys I haven't, and praising a few others I haven't. This is an honest question, not a "this doesn't belong on HN" because I assume there is something here I'm missing? I mean, yes, he's a master of the field and this is certainly an interesting link for somewhere, but…

One interesting thing about Miles Davis is that he never stopped inovating. Several times in his career he could have comfortably sticked to what he was doing and just enjoy the fame and money, but he pushed on. This kind of self-sincerity is quite inspiring regardless of the profession.

Re: Miles Davis – blind listening test

#46

Post by mark_h »

klodolph wrote: post #13

Here's the flipside. Some people are never satisfied with the work of others, and it's exactly this dissatisfaction that can drive them to hone their own endeavors. Obviously, Miles Davis doesn't hate music and it's not as simple as saying his expectations are too high. You can tell by the way he reviews these things that when he listens to these records, he hears them as a jumble of good bits, missed opportunities,…

I seem to recall a Knuth anecdote describing how he'd sunk so deep into the study of fonts that he'd go to a restaurant and pick up the menu, and only much later remember about the food.

Re: Miles Davis – blind listening test

#47

Post by zoul »

SwellJoe wrote: post #34
smcnally wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the "great businessman" things are nice to believe. have any links to substantiate? I "know" Miles from his younger days with Diz and Bird. A middle class kid from KC - one or both parents dentists who weren't planning on a musician for a son. Much talent at a young age - he toured w the creators of Be Bop, fer cripe's sake. Think he rescued Bird on the road more than once. All of this is recalled from Phil Schaap's…

Quoting from one of the last articles before he died (he was still working up until the year of his death): "And the Prince of Silence is still being royally rewarded for doing it. His Highness's treasury is overflowing. Money is every bit as important to him as creativity. Or rather, they are inseparable. Obliging record companies, promoters and broadcasters to pay top dollar also commits them to saturation promotio…

This is from an article by Mike Zwerin:

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/07/17/news/17iht-mile.html?pagew...

Re: Miles Davis – blind listening test

#48

Post by oofabz »

jerf wrote: post #10

Out of curiousity, what is leading people to upvote this? It's a guy I've heard of but don't particularly listen to slagging on a whole bunch of other guys I haven't, and praising a few others I haven't. This is an honest question, not a "this doesn't belong on HN" because I assume there is something here I'm missing? I mean, yes, he's a master of the field and this is certainly an interesting link for somewhere, but…

I enjoyed the great style with which he slagged on everyone. When you have a deep understanding of a field you notice every minute flaw, even in your own work. This hyperattention to detail makes your own work better. I got a kick out of it because he sounds like every other jaded craftsman stuck in a world of idiots.

Re: Miles Davis – blind listening test

#49

Post by kahawe »

wallflower wrote: post #23

Music performance is one of the hardest things to be satisfied with every time... I recommend this book. It talks about perfection and fear and inadequacy. Just took it off my bookshelf to random-access read again. http://www.amazon.com/Effortless-Mastery-Kenny-Werner/dp/156...

> Music performance is one of the hardest things to be satisfied with every time...

Even the greatest Jazz legends would typically say they only had a handful of performances in their career where they were really satisfied and where everything came together and worked perfectly. And these were musicians who practiced hours on end each and every day, on top of performing. Truly humbling.

Re: Miles Davis – blind listening test

#50

Post by padobson »

the_cat_kittles wrote: post #38
klodolph wrote: post #13

Here's the flipside. Some people are never satisfied with the work of others, and it's exactly this dissatisfaction that can drive them to hone their own endeavors. Obviously, Miles Davis doesn't hate music and it's not as simple as saying his expectations are too high. You can tell by the way he reviews these things that when he listens to these records, he hears them as a jumble of good bits, missed opportunities,…

Well said. I think it's true of any field really- when you start to get good, its frustrating to see/hear the missed opportunities and shortcomings in other's work. I wonder if the primary driving force behind any creative endeavor is really just "I want this", and there is no other way to get it than to make it.

This is profound.

I think there might be a difference between enjoying a discipline and needing its produce.

I definitely code for the latter purpose and envy those who have both.

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