Miles Davis – blind listening test • Hacker News Board

Re: Miles Davis – blind listening test

#31

Post by smcnally » Wed, Jul 18, 2012, 4:51 AM UTC

SwellJoe wrote: post #28

jerf wrote: post #10

Out of curiousity, what is leading people to upvote this? It's a guy I've heard of but don't particularly listen to slagging on a whole bunch of other guys I haven't, and praising a few others I haven't. This is an honest question, not a "this doesn't belong on HN" because I assume there is something here I'm missing? I mean, yes, he's a master of the field and this is certainly an interesting link for somewhere, but…

We've discussed Miles Davis on a number of occasions here at HN. It's exactly up our alley...or, at least, the upvotes seem to indicate it is, and I agree that it is. Here's why I think he's interesting: 1. He was an astonishingly good businessman in a time when black men were rarely given opportunities in business, even in the music industry. He is nearly unique even in the jazz world (which was better for black fol…

the "great businessman" things are nice to believe. have any links to substantiate?

I "know" Miles from his younger days with Diz and Bird. A middle class kid from KC - one or both parents dentists who weren't planning on a musician for a son. Much talent at a young age - he toured w the creators of Be Bop, fer cripe's sake. Think he rescued Bird on the road more than once.

All of this is recalled from Phil Schaap's Bird Flight on WKCR. It'd be great to know Miles was a briliant businessman in addition, too.

Re: Miles Davis – blind listening test

#32

Post by gruseom » Wed, Jul 18, 2012, 4:53 AM UTC

mitra wrote: post #12

jerf wrote: post #10

Out of curiousity, what is leading people to upvote this? It's a guy I've heard of but don't particularly listen to slagging on a whole bunch of other guys I haven't, and praising a few others I haven't. This is an honest question, not a "this doesn't belong on HN" because I assume there is something here I'm missing? I mean, yes, he's a master of the field and this is certainly an interesting link for somewhere, but…

As a huge Miles Davis fan I was very tempted to upvote this but refrained from doing so. My general rule of thumb is to not upvote/comment on anything unless it is absolutely relevant to HN's outlook (I'm obviously making an exception for this comment). Anything it takes to keep HN the way it is.

HN is eclectic the way it is. The guidelines call for anything of intellectual interest. The bar tends to be higher for atypical material, that's all.

This piece is good because it's a great artist speaking frankly about his craft. It's surprisingly vivid. I'm not a jazz fan and I enjoyed it thoroughly.

You can learn more from a great artist in a different field than from an average worker in your own.

Re: Miles Davis – blind listening test

#33

Post by cubicle67 » Wed, Jul 18, 2012, 4:53 AM UTC

ynniv wrote: post #4

Perhaps it was editorial, but in this interview if Miles likes it he knows exactly who did it, and if not, why he doesn't like it. It could be that he just didn't like things he wasn't familiar with, but it's likely that he had a clear sense of style and was versed enough to know his industry. If he were a modern programmer he would hate Rails, but know exactly why the bad decisions were made.

If he were a modern programmer he would hate Rails

oooh, them's fightin' words...

If languages were music, Rails would be something gloriously bombastic like Dream Theater's live performance of Six Degrees on their Score album. C would be BB King - timeless and simple yet complex. I think Perl would be that guy with the funny haircut who sounds like a modem

Re: Miles Davis – blind listening test

#34

Post by SwellJoe » Wed, Jul 18, 2012, 5:01 AM UTC

smcnally wrote: post #31

SwellJoe wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've discussed Miles Davis on a number of occasions here at HN. It's exactly up our alley...or, at least, the upvotes seem to indicate it is, and I agree that it is. Here's why I think he's interesting: 1. He was an astonishingly good businessman in a time when black men were rarely given opportunities in business, even in the music industry. He is nearly unique even in the jazz world (which was better for black fol…

the "great businessman" things are nice to believe. have any links to substantiate? I "know" Miles from his younger days with Diz and Bird. A middle class kid from KC - one or both parents dentists who weren't planning on a musician for a son. Much talent at a young age - he toured w the creators of Be Bop, fer cripe's sake. Think he rescued Bird on the road more than once. All of this is recalled from Phil Schaap's…

Quoting from one of the last articles before he died (he was still working up until the year of his death):

"And the Prince of Silence is still being royally rewarded for doing it. His Highness's treasury is overflowing. Money is every bit as important to him as creativity. Or rather, they are inseparable. Obliging record companies, promoters and broadcasters to pay top dollar also commits them to saturation promotion, which encourages business and maintains the price. Money is a symbol of reality, even - especially - money for nothing.

Miles said he could put together a better rock band than Jimi Hendrix. He advised young musicians to learn rock, rhythm and blues and funk tunes rather than jazz standards. "I have to change," he said. "It's like a curse." Miles goes to the money, but it's more complicated than that: The money comes to him.

He has been paid millions to expand frontiers, to reflect the best of our urban experience, to do exactly what he wanted to do and did better than anyone else - to "play what's not there." The artistry with which he relates to money is an art in itself, an integral part of what makes him - whether he likes it or not - a living legend. His multimillion-dollar mansion in Malibu is one of his greatest hits. Miles Davis plays money with as much conviction as he does the trumpet.

After college, I worked in my family's business. Jealous of Miles for making money and music, I compensated by eating and drinking. Coming out of the Russian Tea Room after a three-martini lunch with Bethlehem Steel one afternoon, I crossed Miles stepping out of his Ferrari on the way in. Wearing a Savile Row suit, a Billy Eckstine shirt collar and leather driving gloves with belts on them, he punched me harder than playfully in the stomach and said: "You're getting fat, Mike.""

Re: Miles Davis – blind listening test

#35

Post by joydeepdg » Wed, Jul 18, 2012, 5:06 AM UTC

SwellJoe wrote: post #28

jerf wrote: post #10

Out of curiousity, what is leading people to upvote this? It's a guy I've heard of but don't particularly listen to slagging on a whole bunch of other guys I haven't, and praising a few others I haven't. This is an honest question, not a "this doesn't belong on HN" because I assume there is something here I'm missing? I mean, yes, he's a master of the field and this is certainly an interesting link for somewhere, but…

We've discussed Miles Davis on a number of occasions here at HN. It's exactly up our alley...or, at least, the upvotes seem to indicate it is, and I agree that it is. Here's why I think he's interesting: 1. He was an astonishingly good businessman in a time when black men were rarely given opportunities in business, even in the music industry. He is nearly unique even in the jazz world (which was better for black fol…

I agree with the points you make, but I really don't see anything but (unscientific) opinions in the linked article.

This article says nothing about why Miles was a good businessman or expound on his leadership skills. All it gives us is insight into his taste in composition styles. That, coupled with the fact that music is a highly unscientific endeavor and the reasons he gives for disliking some of the works might be the exact reasons why others might love those very works, makes this article completely useless IMHO.

Re: Miles Davis – blind listening test

#36

Post by SwellJoe » Wed, Jul 18, 2012, 5:11 AM UTC

joydeepdg wrote: post #35

SwellJoe wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've discussed Miles Davis on a number of occasions here at HN. It's exactly up our alley...or, at least, the upvotes seem to indicate it is, and I agree that it is. Here's why I think he's interesting: 1. He was an astonishingly good businessman in a time when black men were rarely given opportunities in business, even in the music industry. He is nearly unique even in the jazz world (which was better for black fol…

I agree with the points you make, but I really don't see anything but (unscientific) opinions in the linked article. This article says nothing about why Miles was a good businessman or expound on his leadership skills. All it gives us is insight into his taste in composition styles. That, coupled with the fact that music is a highly unscientific endeavor and the reasons he gives for disliking some of the works might…

I found it interesting. And, I see parallels to Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. Both of whom are merciless critics.

Does that make it "HN-worthy"? I dunno. It got voted up. I don't consider that a sure sign of worthiness...memes and jokes would also get voted up if they weren't ruthlessly removed by mods, and they definitely aren't HN-worthy. But, I suspect this has something to teach us...or at least provides interesting conversation fodder in areas that most people here probably previously had none. I studied jazz at a high school for fine arts and in college, and Miles Davis is a huge part of a jazz education; I still feel like this gave me some knowledge about Miles that I didn't quite have before (I knew he was a merciless critic, and extremely forthright, and occasionally an asshole; but I don't think I'd ever read it straight from his mouth...I'd read what his band members had said about him).

Re: Miles Davis – blind listening test

#37

Post by gruseom » Wed, Jul 18, 2012, 5:33 AM UTC

joydeepdg wrote: post #35

SwellJoe wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've discussed Miles Davis on a number of occasions here at HN. It's exactly up our alley...or, at least, the upvotes seem to indicate it is, and I agree that it is. Here's why I think he's interesting: 1. He was an astonishingly good businessman in a time when black men were rarely given opportunities in business, even in the music industry. He is nearly unique even in the jazz world (which was better for black fol…

I agree with the points you make, but I really don't see anything but (unscientific) opinions in the linked article. This article says nothing about why Miles was a good businessman or expound on his leadership skills. All it gives us is insight into his taste in composition styles. That, coupled with the fact that music is a highly unscientific endeavor and the reasons he gives for disliking some of the works might…

Lord help us if everything unscientific is useless.

Re: Miles Davis – blind listening test

#38

Post by the_cat_kittles » Wed, Jul 18, 2012, 5:33 AM UTC

klodolph wrote: post #13

Here's the flipside. Some people are never satisfied with the work of others, and it's exactly this dissatisfaction that can drive them to hone their own endeavors. Obviously, Miles Davis doesn't hate music and it's not as simple as saying his expectations are too high. You can tell by the way he reviews these things that when he listens to these records, he hears them as a jumble of good bits, missed opportunities,…

Well said. I think it's true of any field really- when you start to get good, its frustrating to see/hear the missed opportunities and shortcomings in other's work. I wonder if the primary driving force behind any creative endeavor is really just "I want this", and there is no other way to get it than to make it.

Re: Miles Davis – blind listening test

#39

Post by state » Wed, Jul 18, 2012, 5:41 AM UTC

bhousel wrote: post #20

jerf wrote: post #10

Out of curiousity, what is leading people to upvote this? It's a guy I've heard of but don't particularly listen to slagging on a whole bunch of other guys I haven't, and praising a few others I haven't. This is an honest question, not a "this doesn't belong on HN" because I assume there is something here I'm missing? I mean, yes, he's a master of the field and this is certainly an interesting link for somewhere, but…

Honest answer, I upvoted it because I'm sick of reading the typical banal stuff on HN.

It's quite refreshing to see, too.

Re: Miles Davis – blind listening test

#40

Post by lizzard » Wed, Jul 18, 2012, 6:23 AM UTC

That was so great to read, detailed poetics from a real master. I listened to some of the stuff he felt was "sad shit". I sure agree with him on Cecil Taylor!