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China is the manufacturing superpower

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201–210 of 315 posts

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#201
post #178

I remember how until quite recently, the West viewed the East, particularly China, as a backward region. People would even dismissively use the term 'Chinese junk'. In a remarkably short time, that perception has completely flipped. Now it's the West that seems to be falling behind...

> People would even dismissively use the term 'Chinese junk'

I still do. Amazon in Europe is completely filled with Chinese junk, it's nigh impossible to find anything EU/US produced in certain categories. It became Alibaba with markup.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#202
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One example is what you seem to refer to; a solar panel reading made in Vietnam - assembled in Vietnam but by a Chinese owned company with all Chinese components. Another example is the iPhone reading made in China with a dollar value of 400 but the true value add in China is much lower as all the IP, profit margins, and high value components belong somewhere else. This means that even though these numbers look very…

People buy iPhones for their software, which is all made here. Otherwise all phones are black rectangles. The hardware isn’t that important.

The hardware is extremely important…

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Chinese loanmaking to foreign countries has mostly gone bust, with many loans basically in default. As America (or the world bank/imf as a proxy for american capital) can attest, calling in these loans is a great way to make a lot of enemies.

The problem in China's case, is that there's a lot of evidence that China doesn't even care whether or not it's paid back. One, the loans were given often in dollars. Which China found itself with a surplus of the past few decades. With no convenient way of ridding themselves of those dollars without significant pain, Chinese strategists hit on the brilliant plan of "loans". Two, and more importantly, the loans were…

roads and bridges to ports are exactly what imf and world bank loan do too, for obvious reasons

frankly this whole comment reads as historically less informed

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#204
post #57

One thing people are not aware of and am curious of how big it really is: China manufacturing laundry. Essentially, goods are manufactured in China, then laundered to a third-party country and then exported to the US/EU. This come in two flavors, legal laundry where the local manufacturer satisfies the conditions; and illegal one where bribes are paid to pass goods. > https://antidumping.vn/eu-chinabike-duty-hits-ind…

My EU member country assembled chineese cars for a while. I was joking that it came in two parts - the car and the badge and they just glued them together here. From what I understood later it was close to the truth.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think it’s necessarily so clear that Chinese foreign policy has really paid off yet. Chinese loanmaking to foreign countries has mostly gone bust, with many loans basically in default. While it’s true that Western development agencies were not lending to these projects, they mostly weren’t doing so because they were doubtful of the business cases of said projects and the likelihood that the government could a…

It's been argued that if you observe actions and not words, default has always been the point of IMF loans. Have you read Confessions of an Economic Hitman?

I think that generally if you read the internal documents, most of the people behind IMF and other global development loans are operating in good faith and not simply puppets of the political agenda of the west. I think they showed clear overconfidence in their policy prescriptions, but not out of malice

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think it’s necessarily so clear that Chinese foreign policy has really paid off yet. Chinese loanmaking to foreign countries has mostly gone bust, with many loans basically in default. While it’s true that Western development agencies were not lending to these projects, they mostly weren’t doing so because they were doubtful of the business cases of said projects and the likelihood that the government could a…

> Chinese loanmaking to foreign countries has mostly gone bust, with many loans basically in default. As America (or the world bank/imf as a proxy for american capital) can attest, calling in these loans is a great way to make a lot of enemies.

The World Bank and IMF generally don't (and can't) call in loans so I don't know what you're trying to say there. Sometimes what happens is shithole countries default on their debts and then whine about injustice when lenders refuse to extend the terms.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#207

The premise that China does around a third of the world's manufacturing isn't really that surprising, they have more than a sixth of the world's population and there are a lot of areas (e.g. India and Africa) that have large populations and a disproportionately small share of manufacturing. The real problem isn't that it's a third, it's that it will be something like 2% of commercial aircraft and 98% of PCs, and then…

give me an example good where china has 98% share

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#208

I think there's no denying that this is super impressive. Realpolitik aside, well done China. I wonder how manufacturing output compares between China and US+EU, say. It doesn't make that much sense to look at EU constituents in separation. Even then I suppose China is ahead, but maybe it's not a total wipeout. That led me to wonder about manufacturing output vs GDP. Is China producing more, after adjusting for its t…

World War II was won because of US and (less advertised) Soviet manufacturing capacity. Ukraine is more constrained by weapon supplies, especially drones and artillery, than by manpower. I'm not sure both sides are playing the same game. In the game I think might be afoot, if your economy is management consultants, therapists, and hair stylists, that's "bad" GDP. Resources and manufacturing are "good" GDP. Resources…

high finance/management can be quite valuable when you’re trying to plan a conflict. this is how you get the industries developed that are capable of designing a system to turn sand into missile-targeting systems.

i’m extremely skeptical of people’s ability to view the economy from on high and pick out the “good, productive gdp” and the “bad, makework gdp”.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A reduction in the space of possible allocations of resources isn’t good. I would personally like to eliminate allocations of resources that put me out of business and wreck the country. >It is good for any particular set of parties insofar as it hurts some other set of parties more than themselves. There's a huge misunderstanding in here somewhere. Most people don't think of their own welfare in terms of a negative…

> I would personally like to eliminate allocations of resources that put me out of business So would travel agents, real estate agents and car dealerships. Just because a change in allocation of resources or production would end businesses / jobs doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing. I'm not arguing whether this specific policy is good or bad, but mainly that the argument don't do it because "it would cost jobs so…

>So would travel agents, real estate agents and car dealerships.

Yes, but these people also provide good services. I think car dealerships might be the best bad example out of these because car manufacturers don't deal directly with customers. However, I think the fact is that the manufacturers who set it up like this don't want to deal with customers, and they establish dealerships that agree to a certain quality of service that the manufacturer wants associated with their name. Car dealers are explicitly authorized to negotiate prices with customers, which can go either above or below MSRP. If the manufacturer was selling directly to you, you'd probably be stuck with ONE price which might not be the best one. All three of the cases I quoted here can be viewed as a form of optional delegation that usually benefits the producer, the consumer, or both.

If it can be proven that there is a better way to allocate resources (especially on a micro scale), that way should not be categorically banned. But at the international scale especially, you need to be careful.

>Just because a change in allocation of resources or production would end businesses / jobs doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing.

Yes a handful of unimportant ones here and there doesn't have to be so bad. But if strategically important businesses and jobs are eliminated in an allegedly sovereign region, that is usually a bad thing (proportional to the size of the region). If too many of the less important jobs in a region are eliminated or challenged, that puts stress on the people which is also a bad thing.

>I'm not arguing whether this specific policy is good or bad, but mainly that the argument don't do it because "it would cost jobs somewhere" doesn't mean something is a bad policy. Just about every change in the economy costs jobs somewhere. The question is: Does it create more jobs (or higher standard of living) in other places to make up for it?

I think this question only makes sense if you're talking about a relatively closed, cohesive system like a sovereign country. "Higher standard of living" is not the only metric that needs to be optimized (at least as it is commonly defined). We need to have a resilient country to the extent that we can. That might mean paying extra costs to support our native businesses, or accepting somewhat worse products in some cases. For example, you personally could cut or reduce most of your insurance and stop saving for retirement. That would put more money in your pocket every month that you could use to buy cool stuff. That might be interpreted as a higher standard of living. But is it wise? This is not far from what we have done on a national scale, driven by globalist policies and profiteering.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US can make cellphones, its just not efficient for the US to make cellphones because the US’s comparative advantage is elsewhere. What it would take for the US to make cellphones is direct subsidy to the (inefficient, and for that reason likely therefore doomed by the market without artificial support, since there is robust competition) US firms doing so. Of course, not only would this cost the amount of the subs…

It's not economically optimal for one country to manufacture all the jewelry and its neighbour all the tanks, because this situation quickly becomes one country

good thing we have more than two countries. in history, the jewelers generally tend to win because they just pay off some other tank building country - see Kuwait, for instance
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