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Rails for everything

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Re: Rails for everything

#211

Post by WD-42 »

dismalaf wrote: post #45
rich_sasha wrote: post #12

As someone who doesn't do enough web dev to justify learning Ruby just for Rails: how does it compare to Django? That's the only batteries-included web backend framework I'm familiar with... Asking out or curiosity.

Ruby doesn't really have a learning curve... Maybe block syntax but that's super easy. Rails gives you way more structure than Django.

If you are coming from a standard C family language like Java(script), Python, or anything really, Ruby looks weird AF. It for sure has a learning curve. No parens around function arguments? WTF is that?

Re: Rails for everything

#212

Post by Alifatisk »

cjohnson318 wrote: post #105

> There's a bit of hand waving around installing Ruby (which is still more difficult than it needs to be). For real. I put together a simple Jekyll blog, and figuring out gems and this and that after not looking at Ruby for 15 years was a real slog. A lot of that was my fault for being out of the Ruby loop, and being unfamiliar with Jekyll, but I feel like the process could have gone a little more smoothly. Anyway, t…

> my fault for being out of the Ruby loop

Nooo the setup should be easy no matter how experienced you are.

I found jekyll quick to get started with, but that is because I already had Ruby and RubyGems installed.

Re: Rails for everything

#213

Post by dzonga »

chooma wrote: post #142
dzonga wrote: post #133

for auth - instead of devise or the rails 8 auth - you can also opt for authentication-zero. what's hardly ever mentioned is how great hotwire is. it takes time getting used to, documentation is sparse but oh man oh man - hotwire is nice. you get to skip a majority of spa shenanigans.

I am really struggling to get hotwire running to be honest. I now just postponed implementing it till after the launch. Any good ways of getting up to speed on hotwire and debugging it?

this is a nice tutorial too - https://www.hotrails.dev/turbo-rails.

then this series on youtube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7dx1Yt3FzU&list=PLm8ctt9NhM...

some things have changed a bit - so you just have to work through the kinks.

one other thing though - since railsword conf - there was an announcement that certain things have simplified but I haven't found the docs or the new simplified api's.

Re: Rails for everything

#214

Post by lolinder »

blandflakes wrote: post #206
lolinder wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typed languages are in big time, and any dynamic language is facing an uphill battle for adoption, no matter how good it is. Elixir seems to recognize this and is getting there, but it hasn't fully arrived yet.

Types and editor tooling IMO. Both places they're making investments, but both areas where I feel like I'm giving up a lot of power, even though it's admittedly to GET a lot of power.

Agreed on the tooling, I won't be adopting Elixir until the IntelliJ tooling is there. It's just too crippling switching to another IDE.

Re: Rails for everything

#215

Post by rednafi »

neonsunset wrote: post #195
rednafi wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is finding fresh blood who want to write C#. RoR or Django is a much safer choice in that regard. This OO/DI stuff has fallen out of fashion (whether that’s good or bad, I don’t know) and very few enjoy working with these constructs anymore.

Have you ever had to actually hire?

Multiple times; both in the US and Western Europe. Hiring Juniors for C# was harder than finding Python and Ruby people.

Re: Rails for everything

#216

Post by rednafi »

sverhagen wrote: post #154
teleforce wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author of Stanza language has this insightful article on the viability of a programming language for creating a powerful framework like Ruby on Rails [1]. Surprisingly there's no Go and Java equivalent, either it's the incompetence of the programming languages (can't) or the programmers (won't), or both. [1] Stop Designing Languages. Write Libraries Instead: http://lbstanza.org/purpose_of_programming_languages.ht…

I've had to do some maintenance on Rails apps in the past, coming from my Java background, and it was painful as hell. It's just what you're familiar with. I can take my Java and Spring Boot, both of which I'm very familiar with, and write an article like that to wonder why Ruby has not something awesome like Spring Boot. But I don't do that, because it'd be equally embarrassing. Spring Boot for me is super productiv…

OTOH, Java almost made me quit and choose a different career. I’ll work with anything but Java. I’ve worked with Python, JS, Ruby, and Go, and I’ve been fortunate enough to avoid working with OO languages. To each their own.

Re: Rails for everything

#217

Post by rednafi »

lolinder wrote: post #179
mstipetic wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time I step out of elixir I feel like I’m coding with some cumbersome construction gloves and everything is kinda coerced to work together. But for some reason it’s not picking up a lot of steam and the job situation is rough

Typed languages are in big time, and any dynamic language is facing an uphill battle for adoption, no matter how good it is. Elixir seems to recognize this and is getting there, but it hasn't fully arrived yet.

It’s sorta inevitable. I started with Python and used to hate the constraints types put on my design. But as I started working on larger projects, I got tired of Node-Python-Ruby and wanted something faster with stricter types but without too much ceremony. Found Go to be in that Goldilocks zone. The benefit of typed languages becomes easier to appreciate once you have accumulated a certain amount of elbow grease.

Re: Rails for everything

#218

Post by rednafi »

lolinder wrote: post #178
rednafi wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go’s stdlib is almost as good as Python’s—with the bonus of a stricter type system and faster execution speed. Package management in Go is better too, though uv is making Python’s experience smoother. That said, Python is great, and beginners love it. For algorithms and prototyping, I still prefer it. But for writing servers, Go’s stdlib lets me spin up a production-ready, concurrent server using just the basics. Wha…

> Go’s stdlib is almost as good as Python’s—with the bonus of a stricter type system and faster execution speed Define good, and for what applications? I'm having a very hard time imagining that go's standard library is anything like as comprehensive as python's.

Go’s HTTP library is production-ready. Python’s isn’t. Python has a ton of dead batteries in the standard library—stuff like urllib is plain dangerous to use these days. But Go doesn’t have collections.abc, itertools, heapq, deque, and many other data structure niceties. I still reach for Python for numerical and algorithmic tasks.

Re: Rails for everything

#219

Post by rednafi »

jen20 wrote: post #188
__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go is best at interfacing with kubernetes, which I think will carry it pretty far, for better or worse.

The Kubernetes API is one of my least favourite Go packages - largely generated, boilerplate all over the show and hasn’t even adapted to use things like log/slog without some wrapper. A much nicer library for dealing with Kubernetes is the kube crate [1] for Rust. The worst aspect of it is the dependency discipline, though that is no worse than the official Go client. [1]: https://github.com/kube-rs/kube

Go’s k8s package is the OG. Everything else spawned off of it, so it’s packed with legacy artifacts. But yeah, I wouldn’t use it as an example of a good Go package.

Re: Rails for everything

#220

Post by rednafi »

shortrounddev2 wrote: post #88
rednafi wrote: post #47

Rails is awesome, and so is Django. I’ve built mission-critical apps in both and still do with Python. That said, I’d love to switch to Go for building large monoliths since it has a tighter type system and better concurrency constructs. The problem is, Go community has never really filled that gap. I love Go, but the whole "Go doesn’t need a Rails or Django" mindset is part of why it hasn’t taken off in this space.…

Node/Express is my goto for quick and dirty picoservices that only really run on local developer machines. Asp.Net WebAPI or MVC is my ideal backend stack

Neat. For me it’s Python FastAPI and then Go.
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