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Orbit by Mozilla

orbitbymozilla.com

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Re: Orbit by Mozilla

#321

Post by ajcp »

drdaeman wrote: post #40

I guess I'm really not this extension's target audience, because somehow Mozilla managed to make me uninstall it in just a few minutes. First, they have forced telemetry. Okay, it's an early release, it's very basic information, they want to understand how they're doing - I don't like it, but I can understand it. Sets a wrong vibe, though - I had to check if it was from Microsoft and not Mozilla. ;-) Then, I figured…

> For the current version, we are using a Mistral LLM (Mistral 7B) hosted within Mozilla’s GCP instance.

Based on this I would assume they are using GCP Vertex AI as that's going to be WAY cheaper than rolling it all themselves and hosting the model on a GCP server instance. I would also assume they'd be using the gcloud SDK for Vertex AI/Model Garden, which I believe means they can't just provide for a different endpoint and payload shape if you had a service elsewhere.

Eitherway, at the (presumed) scale they'll probably also be using GCPs API management service, so I would expect further abstraction between what the extension is sending and what the model/Vertex AI expects as a payload. This means providing that kind of "bring your own endpoint" experience would require more bespoke build-out time.

BUT who knows? Maybe this is just straight up hitting the out-of-the-box GCP Vertex AI REST API directly from the extension like some hobby project.

Re: Orbit by Mozilla

#322

Post by mort96 »

I have to ask: why, exactly, does it make sense for Mozilla to invest heavily into running expensive servers to run vanity chat bots for people? What's the path here to something which improves their financial situation or browser market share? How isn't this just yet another random service they'll throw money into for a couple of years before shutting down?

Re: Orbit by Mozilla

#323

Post by mort96 »

legacynl wrote: post #316
nulbyte wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla's privacy-leading track record includes making Google the default search engine, running opt-in-by-default privacy-violating experiments, such as the Mr Robot fiasco[1], and opt-in-by-default collaboration with advertisers[2]. I still use Firefox, but I try to stay aware of changes, precisely because of Mozilla's privacy-leading gaffe record. 1. https://itsfoss.com/firefox-looking-glass-controversy/ 2. https:…

If those are the only examples of privacy-tarnishing theyve done, I think that would speak for Firefox and Mozilla.

They literally have Google Analytics which sends telemetry data to Google integrated into the Firefox UI.

Re: Orbit by Mozilla

#324

Post by CamouflagedKiwi »

i_love_retros wrote: post #314
DoctorOW wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could have been nice to see the Rust rewrites finished instead of shelved due to costs. AI is very expensive so if they have the money for this, they could've probably started that up again. Firefox is generally good feature wise but Google gets to almost usurp the W3C because pretty much every other browser is using the Chromium codebase over Mozilla's.

What value would a rewrite in rust bring?

It was sold as supporting a much more concurrent rendering engine, which they felt was basically too hard to write correctly/safely in C++, but presumably would be considerably faster.

Re: Orbit by Mozilla

#325

Post by j45 »

mort96 wrote: post #322

I have to ask: why, exactly, does it make sense for Mozilla to invest heavily into running expensive servers to run vanity chat bots for people? What's the path here to something which improves their financial situation or browser market share? How isn't this just yet another random service they'll throw money into for a couple of years before shutting down?

Because Firefox has to do things to try and grow itself along with their mission.

If they aren’t trying things, they would also then be accused of languishing in obscurity.

AI being built into browsers isn’t new. Summarization isn’t novel. It’s not early in the game where resources are crazy high.

Summarization could run with a basic low powered model privately hosted.

Market share changes based on what browsers do well.

Re: Orbit by Mozilla

#326

Post by zamadatix »

ksenzee wrote: post #225
IshKebab wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their browser is fine. But so is Chrome, and Chrome wins by default because it's installed by default on Android and Android really pushes you to it. Once you're using Chrome on Android and have all your passwords saved there, Firefox is a difficult sell. I can't think of a single Firefox feature that's better than "I don't have to faff around with passwords". Maybe if they allowed adblock on mobile, but last I check…

I agree with your logic but I think the facts lead to the opposite conclusion, because uBlock Origin is now both easy and painless to use with Firefox on Android. That's why every Android user should now have Firefox installed. And if you're using Firefox on Android, why not use it on desktop too with Firefox Sync? I don't actually know how good the Firefox password manager is (I use 1Password) but it's on both deskt…

If you're one of the ~72% using Android and you're one of the ~43% who install an extension of any type and if you're the ~20% that choose to have uBlock origin installed when you do then you're one of the ~6% for whom this is but a single reason to consider one browser over another for all of your devices.

https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide/...

https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity

I love uBO, you love uBO, most of HN loves uBO, actual users either don't care enough or prefer built-ins like Brave over manual customizations and extensions. When specifically discussing mobile users who care about ad blocking also consider many prefer whole phone solutions rather than managing per app solutions, even if it means slightly worse ad blocking in certain apps.

Also remember Firefox let those specific Android users rot on the old, poor performing, and battery eating engine for 2 years longer than the desktop version. Then when they did update only some of the users who picked Firefox for extensions had support. To this day it still hasn't had basic TLC like site isolation implemented. I.e. most Android users who were willing to give Firefox a run already had a bad experience anyways, even if they did care about uBO specifically.

Re: Orbit by Mozilla

#327

Post by ryukafalz »

daeken wrote: post #310
ksec wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Maybe we shouldn't be too critical of Mozilla for providing a privacy-first LLM service It is just Mozilla have a tendency of chasing hype rather than focusing on what they are doing. During early smartphone era they spend most of the resources trying to write an OS with Javascript ( Firefox OS ) that works on a $35 Smartphone. Now they are doing it again with AI. Although this time around Firefox is in fairly good…

I don't think the Firefox OS team was ever bigger than maybe 100 people at the absolute most, and I feel like it was closer to half of that. Admittedly it's been over a decade since I left, so my recollection could be wrong, but it was never "most of the resources" by any metric. It was a tiny percentage of the overall staff; I traveled to the Toronto office to work with some of the graphics devs (the area I primaril…

As a user I always wished Firefox OS had stuck around - I think it would absolutely be practical today with so many PWAs around these days, and KaiOS seems to have done surprisingly well on its Firefox OS base.

Re: Orbit by Mozilla

#328

Post by Sephr »

mentalgear wrote: post #181

I'm reading a lot of criticism here, some I understand, but honestly, this sounds pretty good for a free LLM service: "Orbit doesn't require account creation or save your session data." Maybe we shouldn't be too critical of Mozilla for providing a privacy-first LLM service - for free. The other big privacy-first LLM provider is Apple, which requires users to have their devices/subscriptions to use, and definitely use…

Privacy-first generally entails designing the service on a technical level to be unable to leak personal data. A promise not to store your data is not sufficient.

Re: Orbit by Mozilla

#329

Post by oliverchan2024 »

ksec wrote: post #291
mentalgear wrote: post #181

I'm reading a lot of criticism here, some I understand, but honestly, this sounds pretty good for a free LLM service: "Orbit doesn't require account creation or save your session data." Maybe we shouldn't be too critical of Mozilla for providing a privacy-first LLM service - for free. The other big privacy-first LLM provider is Apple, which requires users to have their devices/subscriptions to use, and definitely use…

>Maybe we shouldn't be too critical of Mozilla for providing a privacy-first LLM service It is just Mozilla have a tendency of chasing hype rather than focusing on what they are doing. During early smartphone era they spend most of the resources trying to write an OS with Javascript ( Firefox OS ) that works on a $35 Smartphone. Now they are doing it again with AI. Although this time around Firefox is in fairly good…

I like Firefox OS, but unfortunately, I rarely saw any smartphones actually running this system. I feel deeply regretful about it.

Re: Orbit by Mozilla

#330

Post by likeabatterycar »

j45 wrote: post #325
mort96 wrote: post #322

I have to ask: why, exactly, does it make sense for Mozilla to invest heavily into running expensive servers to run vanity chat bots for people? What's the path here to something which improves their financial situation or browser market share? How isn't this just yet another random service they'll throw money into for a couple of years before shutting down?

Because Firefox has to do things to try and grow itself along with their mission. If they aren’t trying things, they would also then be accused of languishing in obscurity. AI being built into browsers isn’t new. Summarization isn’t novel. It’s not early in the game where resources are crazy high. Summarization could run with a basic low powered model privately hosted. Market share changes based on what browsers do w…

A car with square wheels doesn't grow itself by adding three horns and a bubble dome...
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