China doesn't limit their AI research with so called safety and other concerns, but we do. Who is going to win? Somehow I don't think this is going to be us.
Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race
71–80 of 476 posts
Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's a saying in Chinese liberals community: We cannot help but admire the American system's ability to self-correct. I've seen it twice these years, one was after JoeBiden won election, said the system choose Biden to fix Trump mess, one was after DTrump won, said the system correct the Biden error. So China is, of course, more fragile.
All what I can see from this comment logic is that the US have a cycle of mess that get rotated not a demonstration of self correction mechanisms. Not to say that I believe that the US (or any other government or country) unable to have self correction ability or mechanisms. I am just pointing that your logic is flawed.
Glad you pointed out the logical fallacy.
In that context, "less fragile" are vague words without a clear subject.
I posted the saying to be satirical, but in depth, the two-party system is more stable than any other political systems: To people, it may seem like a cycle of mess, but the system itself is very stable, it avoids the regime change by normalizing it.
Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
It seems to me that we forgot about the “stealing” of the “shit” from Europe and other places in the early days …
Protip: Some of us were not involved in the desecration caused by the East India Tea Company. Just because we look British means we should suffer like them, too?
What does your looks and involvement have to do with the parent comment’s core point?
Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race
#74If you tell the world that eggs are awesome while denying other countries access to eggs, they discover ways to use less eggs and eventually realize they don't need eggs at all. Then you are stuck making Dennys breakfasts while the rest of the world is on to fine dining. China has incredibly strong incentives to do the pure research needed to break the current GPU-or-else lock. I hope, for science' sake, we dont end…
It remains to be seen how stable a totalitarian government can be. China has the benefit of having full control over its people and therefore gets to decide what is important and what not, and currently people are ok with handing that control over to the government. But it's also a very fragile state, which can only be retained through full repression.
This argument might've worked in Mao's time. Now with a capitalist economy under the party the resource allocation while still skewed is much more efficient than during Mao or USSR central planned economy. (And EU wide policies sometimes aren't that far off from USSR stupidity).
Loss of feedback in authoritarian regimes is a problem, but in the short time it might not be if Xi doesn't make really stupid moves.
It pains me to see it, but they show more long-term thinking that many of the Western governments who aren't interested what will happen after their time in the office.
While the people have plenty use of force can be minimal.
Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race
#75China doesn't limit their AI research with so called safety and other concerns, but we do. Who is going to win? Somehow I don't think this is going to be us.
What is the "so called safety" that we do?
Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
It remains to be seen how stable a totalitarian government can be. China has the benefit of having full control over its people and therefore gets to decide what is important and what not, and currently people are ok with handing that control over to the government. But it's also a very fragile state, which can only be retained through full repression.
It is probably more stable now than at any time since the communist takeover.
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Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race
#77If you tell the world that eggs are awesome while denying other countries access to eggs, they discover ways to use less eggs and eventually realize they don't need eggs at all. Then you are stuck making Dennys breakfasts while the rest of the world is on to fine dining. China has incredibly strong incentives to do the pure research needed to break the current GPU-or-else lock. I hope, for science' sake, we dont end…
It remains to be seen how stable a totalitarian government can be. China has the benefit of having full control over its people and therefore gets to decide what is important and what not, and currently people are ok with handing that control over to the government. But it's also a very fragile state, which can only be retained through full repression.
Do the governments elected recently in the West look stable to you?
Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
It remains to be seen how stable a totalitarian government can be. China has the benefit of having full control over its people and therefore gets to decide what is important and what not, and currently people are ok with handing that control over to the government. But it's also a very fragile state, which can only be retained through full repression.
It is probably more stable now than at any time since the communist takeover.
Dubious claim, unless in the era between the cultural revolution and Mao's death China under the communists has always been made very stable due to the collegiality at the top, now the collegiality is gone and so will the stability as soon as Xi is no more. That's the problem when one individual grabs all power.
Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race
#79Part of the reason their API is so cheap because they explicitly state they are going to train on your API data. Open AI and Claude say they won’t if you use their API (if you use ChatGPT that’s a different story). There are no free lunches.
This comment is misleading. There is a "free lunch" here in the sense that serving this model is far cheaper than worse, open source models at scale.
Yes they probably are more willing to go down in price due to this, but the architecture is open, and they are charging similarly to a 30B-50B dense model, which is about how many active params deepseek-v3 has.
Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race
#80I find that the gushing around deepseek is fascinating to watch. To me there are a few structural and fundamental reasons why deepseek can never outperform other models by a wide margin. On par maybe--as we reach the diminishing returns with our investment in the models, but not win by a wide margin. 1. The US trade war with china which will place deepseek compute availability at disadvantages, eventually, if we ever…
> 3. Most importantly, deepseek is open source, which means that the other models are free to copy whatever secret source it has, eg: Whatever architecture that purportedly use less compute can easily be copied.
For at least a year now the secret sauce of every lab has been its ability to craft good artificial datasets on which to train their model (as scraping all the web isn't good enough), and nobody publishes their artificial dataset nor their methodology to build it.