Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

chinatalk.media

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 476 posts

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#51

Post by LittleTimothy »

I'm getting so interested in the meta dynamics of this. The ability of the Chinese company to just openly state "we're working on this because it's interesting" rather than the US version "We want to wrap the world in puppies and hugs and we love you all and it's just a really embarrassing mistake I ended up buying myself a Koenigsegg and fired all the scientists from my non-profit board". To apply the same scepticism to the Chinese CEO - you can't threaten the monopoly of the Communist party so you have to pretend you're less capable than you are.

I don't think there's any doubt that China can produce some level of tech innovation, I do wonder if it can be sustained and exploited since we saw the damage that went on with Alibaba. Although maybe that's looking like a more reasonable approach when you see the danger of the opposite happening in the US.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#52

Post by skywhopper »

djaouen wrote: post #47
carom wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are referring to the fact that the US ignored European IP in its early days and relating that to what China is doing to the US now.

I am just saying, this AI controversy has roots from before the creation of OpenAI. If OpenAI used European IP, I would think that would be a good thing for Europe, assuming AI is the future? Sorry for talking Ancient History lol

What we call AI is not “the future”. But I’m not sure how OpenAI stealing European IP would help Europe, even if it is.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#53

Post by suraci »

aaomidi wrote: post #41
qwertox wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It remains to be seen how stable a totalitarian government can be. China has the benefit of having full control over its people and therefore gets to decide what is important and what not, and currently people are ok with handing that control over to the government. But it's also a very fragile state, which can only be retained through full repression.

[flagged]

There's a saying in Chinese liberals community: We cannot help but admire the American system's ability to self-correct.

I've seen it twice these years, one was after JoeBiden won election, said the system choose Biden to fix Trump mess, one was after DTrump won, said the system correct the Biden error.

So China is, of course, more fragile.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#55

Post by chvid »

nsoonhui wrote: post #13

I find that the gushing around deepseek is fascinating to watch. To me there are a few structural and fundamental reasons why deepseek can never outperform other models by a wide margin. On par maybe--as we reach the diminishing returns with our investment in the models, but not win by a wide margin. 1. The US trade war with china which will place deepseek compute availability at disadvantages, eventually, if we ever…

As I understand deepseek has the best open source model at the moment by a fair margin. Disproving that a Chinese company cannot outperform western offerings due to censorship and compute constrains.

Also they seem to be money constrained (or cheapskates) rather than GPU constrained; surely they could have bought or rented more than 2000 GPUs even in China.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#56

Post by logicchains »

nbroyal wrote: post #27
tossandthrow wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... why deepseek can never outperform ... This read more like a "western supremacists" post. 1. Only until China produces more compute than the west. 2. You don't have to ask ChatGPT / Claude many questions before realizing the grave censorship these are under - DeepSeek has access the roughly the same corpus of data as their western counter parts. 3. It is naive to think they only develop open source or will not s…

Curious to hear more about the grave censorship that ChatGPT and Claude are under. Specifically where non-western models are not.

If you ask them for scientific evidence on the link between race and IQ (or lack thereof).

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#57

Post by n144q »

nsoonhui wrote: post #13

I find that the gushing around deepseek is fascinating to watch. To me there are a few structural and fundamental reasons why deepseek can never outperform other models by a wide margin. On par maybe--as we reach the diminishing returns with our investment in the models, but not win by a wide margin. 1. The US trade war with china which will place deepseek compute availability at disadvantages, eventually, if we ever…

"to some degree"

If you are a history researcher or a political analyst, maybe. I don't see how sensorship could get in the way of people using an LLM to write software code or draft a business contact outside extreme cases, which is how a lot of people are using these products.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#59

Post by cma »

djaouen wrote: post #43
quantum_state wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that we forgot about the “stealing” of the “shit” from Europe and other places in the early days …

Protip: Some of us were not involved in the desecration caused by the East India Tea Company. Just because we look British means we should suffer like them, too?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Slater

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_Samaritans_(book)

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#60

Post by dartos »

borski wrote: post #48
aaomidi wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

We’ve seen a CEO shot, and the majority of people definitely don’t cheer it on; just a very vocal minority. Moreover, he may yet get the death penalty; I’m not sure I’d call that any more “fragile” than any other shooting.

Not to mention that that CEO was in health insurance. A very emotionally charged industry where someone’s life or death is directly affected by CEO decisions.
Post reply on HN