Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

Post by aaomidi » Tue, Dec 31, 2024, 12:41 PM UTC

qwertox wrote: post #36

kjellsbells wrote: post #10

If you tell the world that eggs are awesome while denying other countries access to eggs, they discover ways to use less eggs and eventually realize they don't need eggs at all. Then you are stuck making Dennys breakfasts while the rest of the world is on to fine dining. China has incredibly strong incentives to do the pure research needed to break the current GPU-or-else lock. I hope, for science' sake, we dont end…

It remains to be seen how stable a totalitarian government can be. China has the benefit of having full control over its people and therefore gets to decide what is important and what not, and currently people are ok with handing that control over to the government. But it's also a very fragile state, which can only be retained through full repression.

Post by djaouen » Tue, Dec 31, 2024, 12:51 PM UTC

quantum_state wrote: post #40

djaouen wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you tell the world that eggs are awesome while denying other countries access to eggs, they discover ways to use less eggs You are confusing cause with effect. What actually happened: Nixon opened up US trade with China and, ever since, China has been stealing trade secrets to undermine and overthrow American interests. Limiting their access to eggs was literally us trying to prevent them from stealing all our s…

It seems to me that we forgot about the “stealing” of the “shit” from Europe and other places in the early days …

Post by msp26 » Tue, Dec 31, 2024, 12:55 PM UTC

arisAlexis wrote: post #20

logicchains wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I want to know exactly what makes everyone thinks that deepseek totally owns the LLM space? It achieved competitive performance to the competition at literally 10x less cost of production (training). That's an incredible achievement in any industry, especially given they have such a small team relative to competitors. Their API is 20-50x cheaper than the competitors, and not because they're burning cash by charging…

Of course if you arrive last and copy all the existing architecture you can train it cheaper

Post by djaouen » Tue, Dec 31, 2024, 1:02 PM UTC

carom wrote: post #44

djaouen wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protip: Some of us were not involved in the desecration caused by the East India Tea Company. Just because we look British means we should suffer like them, too?

They are referring to the fact that the US ignored European IP in its early days and relating that to what China is doing to the US now.

Post by okasaki » Tue, Dec 31, 2024, 1:10 PM UTC

pmarreck wrote: post #38

futureshock wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When they do it, it’s “censorship.” When we do it it’s “safety.” From a technical standpoint it’s the same. Don’t say certain things, respond to certain questions with refusals or with certain answers.

Yes, but there should be a difference between providing answers about provably dangerous things and providing provably false answers for political reasons. For example if there is a Russian LLM that refuses to answer any questions about homosexuality while also saying it's wrong, that's demonstrably false from an empirical basis. But the western LLM's are also doing this latter type of thing already. If you ask any o…