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FTC orders 'gun detection' tech maker Evolv to stop overstating effectiveness

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Re: FTC orders 'gun detection' tech maker Evolv to stop overstating effectiveness

#11

Post by tremon »

ceejayoz wrote: post #5
stronglikedan wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun” lie has been repeatedly disproven over and over again Has it? They certainly don't stop themselves (unless resulting from being surrounded by good guys with guns).

Examples in both directions abound. Guns aren't required: https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/25/us/indiana-school-shooting-te... https://www.npr.org/2022/11/15/1136617873/buffalo-clinic-gun... https://time.com/6249944/monterey-park-mass-shooting-brandon... https://nypost.com/2022/02/01/waffle-house-shooting-video-sh... https://abcnews.go.com/US/abc-news-exclusive-teacher-hugged-... Guns (even nearly 400 of them, carried by…

That last example is very weak, since the platitude explicitly mentions good guys with guns.

Re: FTC orders 'gun detection' tech maker Evolv to stop overstating effectiveness

#12

Post by ceejayoz »

tremon wrote: post #11
ceejayoz wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Examples in both directions abound. Guns aren't required: https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/25/us/indiana-school-shooting-te... https://www.npr.org/2022/11/15/1136617873/buffalo-clinic-gun... https://time.com/6249944/monterey-park-mass-shooting-brandon... https://nypost.com/2022/02/01/waffle-house-shooting-video-sh... https://abcnews.go.com/US/abc-news-exclusive-teacher-hugged-... Guns (even nearly 400 of them, carried by…

That last example is very weak, since the platitude explicitly mentions good guys with guns.

If there's not a single good guy in ~400 cops, that indicates a substantial related issue.

Re: FTC orders 'gun detection' tech maker Evolv to stop overstating effectiveness

#13

Post by roamerz »

Urd- wrote: post #3
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #2

[flagged]

Because a crazed gunman will (A) go through the scanner and (B) will not open fire when their weapon is detected.

(C) crazed gunman neutralized by good guy with gun. In this case it was 3 minutes after the fact (Median Police Response Time to Active Shooter Attacks) rather than immediately as there were no available Good Guys with Guns due to gun policies.

I would never ever choose to be involved in an active shooter situation but if I were I’d surely want to be armed rather than not.

Re: FTC orders 'gun detection' tech maker Evolv to stop overstating effectiveness

#14

Post by yesco »

razakel wrote: post #9
AngryData wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't agree with this stance at all. US shootings and crimes will not be stopped or declined by stronger invasions of privacy and increased searches. US's high crime problems boil down to poor socioeconomic factors. Poverty, desperation, lack of economic mobility and opportunity, draconian law enforcement, poor social services and safety net. Over and over and over again throughout history, harsher law enforcement…

Canadians have guns. Mexicans have guns. Australians have guns. They don't have school shootings on an almost daily basis. The problem is definitely not the guns. It doesn't help, but it's not the root cause.

I am happy to inform you that the United States also does not have school shootings on an "almost daily basis". Not trying to be pedantic here, but gross exaggerations misrepresent the issue.

Re: FTC orders 'gun detection' tech maker Evolv to stop overstating effectiveness

#15

Post by potato3732842 »

AngryData wrote: post #6
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #2

[flagged]

I can't agree with this stance at all. US shootings and crimes will not be stopped or declined by stronger invasions of privacy and increased searches. US's high crime problems boil down to poor socioeconomic factors. Poverty, desperation, lack of economic mobility and opportunity, draconian law enforcement, poor social services and safety net. Over and over and over again throughout history, harsher law enforcement…

Don't forget the massive illegal drug industry that has to DIY the kind of business-dispute settling violence that normal industries use court ordered state violence for.

That alone accounts of a huge amount of our violence.

Re: FTC orders 'gun detection' tech maker Evolv to stop overstating effectiveness

#16

Post by ceejayoz »

roamerz wrote: post #13
Urd- wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because a crazed gunman will (A) go through the scanner and (B) will not open fire when their weapon is detected.

(C) crazed gunman neutralized by good guy with gun. In this case it was 3 minutes after the fact (Median Police Response Time to Active Shooter Attacks) rather than immediately as there were no available Good Guys with Guns due to gun policies. I would never ever choose to be involved in an active shooter situation but if I were I’d surely want to be armed rather than not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uvalde_school_shooting#Timelin...

11:30am: First 911 call.

11:31am: Officer arrives at school.

One minute police response time, by your metric. ~80 minutes later, the ~400 very well armed cops on scene managed to finally go in.

Re: FTC orders 'gun detection' tech maker Evolv to stop overstating effectiveness

#17

Post by javagram »

Urd- wrote: post #3
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #2

[flagged]

Because a crazed gunman will (A) go through the scanner and (B) will not open fire when their weapon is detected.

Gun and weapon detection is still useful to stop shootings and stabbings that arise out of fights, where one member may suddenly present and use a previously concealed weapon.

Agreed that the usefulness against a crazed gunman is less clear, although crazies do not always have a rational plan. If the weapon was concealed in a backpack or something the security may be able to tackle them before they access it. If they’re carrying it in an easily accessible, concealed holster, that’s less effective and they might be able to draw and use it after being detected.

Re: FTC orders 'gun detection' tech maker Evolv to stop overstating effectiveness

#18

Post by ceejayoz »

yesco wrote: post #14
razakel wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canadians have guns. Mexicans have guns. Australians have guns. They don't have school shootings on an almost daily basis. The problem is definitely not the guns. It doesn't help, but it's not the root cause.

I am happy to inform you that the United States also does not have school shootings on an "almost daily basis". Not trying to be pedantic here, but gross exaggerations misrepresent the issue.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/12/17/mass-s...

> GVA has reported 971 cases of school shootings across the United States in 2024, with many of them having no victims or injuries. The database has tracked 112 school shootings in which a victim was injured or killed.

Somewhere between ~3/day and ~0.3/day, depending what you count. Close enough.

Re: FTC orders 'gun detection' tech maker Evolv to stop overstating effectiveness

#20

Post by idontwantthis »

Clark County School District recently signed a $5 million contract with a different AI “Weapon Detection System”. There is no way any of them are real is there?

Edit: CCSD uses Remark. Maybe their AI actually knows what a person walking with a gun somewhere on their body looks like in all situations and for all skin colors.

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