Earlier quoted context omitted.
Taking? Yes. It's the selling and marketing that's the social disaster, see the opiates scandal.
As long as that marketing is not misleading and the contract is clear, with all dangers exposed, it should also be legal IMHO. What should not be legal is fooling someone into taking something without knowing its consequences for the potential harm produced. The rest should be ok.
BioTerrorism Will Save Your Life with the 4 Thieves Vinegar Collective [video]
191–200 of 215 posts
Re: BioTerrorism Will Save Your Life with the 4 Thieves Vinegar Collective [video]
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
> they have cherry-picked some extremely simple drugs to synthesize to make their point It can't do everything , but those cherry-picked examples are still pretty dramatic. Saving $80k to cure your Hep.C is pretty practical. Getting an abortion while living under increasingly emboldened christofascists is pretty practical. Managing your own transgender HRT is pretty practical. Lets not perfect be the enemy of good, i…
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Re: BioTerrorism Will Save Your Life with the 4 Thieves Vinegar Collective [video]
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is one of those moments where the person you are talking to says something like “I don’t have the time or the crayons to explain this to you.” I am sure it happens a lot.
Always interesting to see when discussions end in an ad hominem. I guess it is very hard to refute 4th grade biology.
Re: BioTerrorism Will Save Your Life with the 4 Thieves Vinegar Collective [video]
#194Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's crazy how DIY HRT and puberty blockers are now necessary to prevent trans kids from being mutilated by going through the wound puberty, then having to pay tens of thousands of dollars for reconstructive surgeries to fix maybe a fifth the damage.
Going through puberty isn't damage or mutilation, it's the process of development through which a child matures to an adult.
What would you call it if your parents denied you healthcare as a child, leading to permanent disfigurement? I call it mutilation.
It used to be common to get serious infections at a young age. But today if your parents refused to provide you healthcare (vaccinations, in this case), and you caught polio which lead to osteoporosis preventing you from ever walking normally again; would you also say that wasn't damage or mutilation? I mean, it was the natural process of development through which a child matures, at least until we developed a vaccine.
It used to be there wasn't much we could do for trans people, just like polio. But now we have medications that can prevent the suffering the conditions lead to, and not using them is evil.
Re: BioTerrorism Will Save Your Life with the 4 Thieves Vinegar Collective [video]
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
As long as that marketing is not misleading and the contract is clear, with all dangers exposed, it should also be legal IMHO. What should not be legal is fooling someone into taking something without knowing its consequences for the potential harm produced. The rest should be ok.
It’s sadly never that simple. You quickly run into “and now we have to regulate it further” at every step because contracts have to be exhaustive in order to be clear, risks cannot be fully known in advance, rational people can disagree about what is misleading, etc.
It is impossible to fix.
Also, note thst even with regulations and, more important, INSIDE regulated areas, these things already happen.
I think there is a case to discuss what constitutes harm, but pretending that regulated means "harmless and ok" and not regulated "evil and dangerous" is a bad mindset and the one that is dragging us to a false sense of security via hyper regulation. Not always, of course, but in many cases it is just a false sense of it.
Re: BioTerrorism Will Save Your Life with the 4 Thieves Vinegar Collective [video]
#196Re: BioTerrorism Will Save Your Life with the 4 Thieves Vinegar Collective [video]
#197Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Will most drugs be easy to make at home? Probably not, but enough probably can be that I wouldn't dismiss the idea because of some rhetorical overreach. Ever watch a non-chef bake a cake? If you have, that experience should give you great concern about people playing with drug recipes. In addition, most drugs do not have a "nice" synthesis that doesn't leave a whole bunch of glop in the afterproducts. Distilling al…
People do not synthesize drugs on their own without any prior knowledge. They take university organic chemistry classes and then start synthesizing drugs. The cooking analogy would be studying at a culinary school prior to preparing pufferfish without a license.
The girl who needs mifepristone will not be an organic chemist. The trans-person who needs their hormones will not be an organic chemist. etc.
What part of: "Distilling alcohol is about as easy as it gets and yet people wind up poisoned from homemade hooch all the time." did you miss?
We know what happens when drugs are made illegal--they wind up adulterated with god knows what--sometimes intentionally, sometimes not.
The "solution" is making sure that these drugs are legal and available. The solution is social and political--we need people to put in as much effort into the politics as they do into dubious "tech" solutions.
Re: BioTerrorism Will Save Your Life with the 4 Thieves Vinegar Collective [video]
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why do you ask? Specifically, this is one stupid question and one irrelevant question. Why do you ask either the stupid question or the irrelevant question? The stupid question is stupid in the same way as: "What color was George Washington's white horse?" The entire presentation is nothing but a continuous stream of synopsys' of proofs of concepts. The answer to the question is nothing other than a verbatim transcri…
Because if the idea they're proving is that basic chemistry does what textbooks say basic chemistry should do I'm not sure I understand the impact of the "POC" here. That's all; I'm not baiting, I'm genuinely wondering what I'm missing.
It's not merely showing that already known basic chemistry works as we already knew it worked.
It's almost like but again not merely showing that you can make your own cottage cheese at home instead of buying it as a commercially made product.
Countless medecines, and their delivery mechanisms, exist that could be produced in a more diy way, but most people don't know it, because of basically PR driven by the people who make money from medications and health care in general. That PR encompassing both ordinary direct messaging to the population and doctors, and lobbying for regulation and direct influence over regulating bodies and standards bodies by being members themselves, etc. The true issues of quality control and safety etc have been grossly over-used to justify removing options and control from end users.
I did not know that you could make your own epi pen. That is the kind of thing that everyone should know. I don't mean that everyone should know how to do it, I mean everyone should know it's possible and always there as an option the same way everyone knows you could make your own cheese.
That is one example that answers both questions. It proved the concept that such a thing is possible, and I myself also happened not to know it before watching the video.
I don't think it is invalid or not a proof of concept even if there already exists people with the right knowledge such that they consider the contents of an epi pen "basic chemistry".
It is still a revelating proof of concept that one can produce one's own epi-pen, and that the only thing preventing countless people from being able to take advantage of such a huge practicality, is a combination of various forms of artificial barriers that should all be insubstantial, but in the end they do end up acheiving the result that the epi-pen producer wants. No one makes their own epi-pens nor produces them in a cheap generic form (in the US).
That particular example isn't even new. When I google "make your own epi-pen" I see it comes from 2016. That does not mean it's not a proof of concept, it just demonstrates how those insubstantial barriers never the less worked. Not just because I personally did not know about this public thing that was there to be googled since 2016, but because in fact all the people who pay US health care rate for epi-pens unwillingly.
I think it doesn't matter if a concept is new or already known to some. A video demonstrating that it's possible to start a fire without a match is still a proof of concept even if some humans have known how to do that for thousands of years.
Re: BioTerrorism Will Save Your Life with the 4 Thieves Vinegar Collective [video]
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
People do not synthesize drugs on their own without any prior knowledge. They take university organic chemistry classes and then start synthesizing drugs. The cooking analogy would be studying at a culinary school prior to preparing pufferfish without a license.
> People do not synthesize drugs on their own without any prior knowledge. They take university organic chemistry classes and then start synthesizing drugs. The girl who needs mifepristone will not be an organic chemist. The trans-person who needs their hormones will not be an organic chemist. etc. What part of: "Distilling alcohol is about as easy as it gets and yet people wind up poisoned from homemade hooch all th…
Re: BioTerrorism Will Save Your Life with the 4 Thieves Vinegar Collective [video]
#200Earlier quoted context omitted.
People do not synthesize drugs on their own without any prior knowledge. They take university organic chemistry classes and then start synthesizing drugs. The cooking analogy would be studying at a culinary school prior to preparing pufferfish without a license.
> People do not synthesize drugs on their own without any prior knowledge. They take university organic chemistry classes and then start synthesizing drugs. The girl who needs mifepristone will not be an organic chemist. The trans-person who needs their hormones will not be an organic chemist. etc. What part of: "Distilling alcohol is about as easy as it gets and yet people wind up poisoned from homemade hooch all th…
If you want to synthesize organic compounds (drugs or otherwise), you need to know organic chemistry in order to make your own recipes. To give an example, this guy made his own recipe for making cinnamaldehyde from styrofoam, using what he learned from his college Organic Chemistry classes and a substantial amount of background research:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMaTrgUKC1w
He did not follow a recipe from someone else because there was none. Chemists have worked out a number of reactions that can be chained together to make arbitrary organic compounds. Organic chemistry teaches the better known / more widely useful ones. That gives the foundation needed to do these things.
Please do not make me regret sharing my knowledge by bringing politics into a technical discussion. I am under doctor's orders to avoid political discussions.