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VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

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Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#11

Post by barbegal »

gambiting wrote: post #9
pluc wrote: post #6

This is why you don't bring your car for service at dealers. On "dumb" cars, that's when the transfer happens and it can be location data and even car audio. That's also why you don't install these little trackers to find your car when it gets stolen, because when it isn't stolen, they make money selling your location data, and that's the real product. Weaponizing convenience, as usual.

If you bought a brand new car, the loss of warranty is not worth not bringing it to the dealer. If you have a car already out of warranty then absolutely, service it anywhere else. But we have an EV and the 8 year warranty on the battery is also dependent on servicing the car within the dealer network, so we're in a bind for a while. And yes, I know that legally you don't have to service the car at the official deale…

If you take these corporations to court these arguments don't stand up. In your oil example, if you had a warranty claim due to say a broken suspension component then the type of engine oil used wouldn't be relevant. It just allows them to try to weasel their way out of claims.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#12

Post by gambiting »

barbegal wrote: post #11
gambiting wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you bought a brand new car, the loss of warranty is not worth not bringing it to the dealer. If you have a car already out of warranty then absolutely, service it anywhere else. But we have an EV and the 8 year warranty on the battery is also dependent on servicing the car within the dealer network, so we're in a bind for a while. And yes, I know that legally you don't have to service the car at the official deale…

If you take these corporations to court these arguments don't stand up. In your oil example, if you had a warranty claim due to say a broken suspension component then the type of engine oil used wouldn't be relevant. It just allows them to try to weasel their way out of claims.

...that is exactly what I said? Dealers will(and do!) just reject any warranty claim based on the fact that you haven't serviced the car with an official dealer. You can show them all the documents and laws and they will just ignore you. Taking them to court works but it just ends up costing you time and money.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#13

Post by oellegaard »

I own both Mercedes and Skoda (owned by VW) and I feel like both companies are headed in an extremely bad direction. The other day I saw that now Mercedes wants to charge me 200-300 USD/year for navigation and the ability to remotely lock your door.

The fact is they let you pay $100k for a car and then they behave like Facebook and other consumer platforms where you pay with your data and can buy add-ons.

You can't combine the two. In this case you paid for your car, so it's yours and they are hands-off unless you ask them for something. Also, the car should not randomly stop working after three years and ask you for extra money.

Unfortunately, I don't have any faith in Tesla either. While in front of innovation surely they are behind moral. If I were to buy a car today, I'm not sure where to look.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#14

Post by alkonaut »

barbegal wrote: post #11
gambiting wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you bought a brand new car, the loss of warranty is not worth not bringing it to the dealer. If you have a car already out of warranty then absolutely, service it anywhere else. But we have an EV and the 8 year warranty on the battery is also dependent on servicing the car within the dealer network, so we're in a bind for a while. And yes, I know that legally you don't have to service the car at the official deale…

If you take these corporations to court these arguments don't stand up. In your oil example, if you had a warranty claim due to say a broken suspension component then the type of engine oil used wouldn't be relevant. It just allows them to try to weasel their way out of claims.

Yes but my fear of having to litigate anything is around 1000x higher than my fear of being overcharged for service or spied on by the manufacturer.

The cost of first party service for 2-10 years (warranty period) is just part of the cost of ownership it’s as simple as that.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#15

Post by michaelt »

gambiting wrote: post #9
pluc wrote: post #6

This is why you don't bring your car for service at dealers. On "dumb" cars, that's when the transfer happens and it can be location data and even car audio. That's also why you don't install these little trackers to find your car when it gets stolen, because when it isn't stolen, they make money selling your location data, and that's the real product. Weaponizing convenience, as usual.

If you bought a brand new car, the loss of warranty is not worth not bringing it to the dealer. If you have a car already out of warranty then absolutely, service it anywhere else. But we have an EV and the 8 year warranty on the battery is also dependent on servicing the car within the dealer network, so we're in a bind for a while. And yes, I know that legally you don't have to service the car at the official deale…

If the company is in the business of scamming people on the warranty, can't they do it just as easily whether you service with them or not?

Just have the official dealership ask the customer for $300 to replace the prefabulated amulite on the ambifacient lunar waneshaft, and when the customer declines, you can refuse their future warranty claims on that basis.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#17

Post by bboygravity »

Rygian wrote: post #7
oblio wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "sprint problem". There is a technical or moral concern that does not immediately make money, or worse, reduces income. Every development sprint tasks are prioritized. All that needs to happen is for the desired items to have, say, a priority of 3, while items in the sprint are always priorities 1 and 2. That ensures those items are never done. Examples? Google web applications tested and bugs fixed for Firefox.

There's a person whose job is to prioritize. If that person, and that person's management, think that security and privacy are a priority, then things get fixed.

Where's the incentive for company leadership to spend resources on security currently?

As long as there's no incentive to improve security, there will be no security.

Examples of incentive: laws. Fix security or you can't sell your product, if you can't sell product you don't get a bonus or get fired. Don't gather location data if it's not critical for the functioning of the car or you can't sell your product, etc.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#18

Post by gambiting »

michaelt wrote: post #15
gambiting wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you bought a brand new car, the loss of warranty is not worth not bringing it to the dealer. If you have a car already out of warranty then absolutely, service it anywhere else. But we have an EV and the 8 year warranty on the battery is also dependent on servicing the car within the dealer network, so we're in a bind for a while. And yes, I know that legally you don't have to service the car at the official deale…

If the company is in the business of scamming people on the warranty, can't they do it just as easily whether you service with them or not? Just have the official dealership ask the customer for $300 to replace the prefabulated amulite on the ambifacient lunar waneshaft, and when the customer declines, you can refuse their future warranty claims on that basis.

>>If the company is in the business of scamming people on the warranty, can't they do it just as easily whether you service with them or not?

The way this works is that if you need warranty work done, the dealer submits a claim to the manufacturer saying "this car will need X hours of work and these parts to fix it" and if the manufacturer can see it's been serviced within their dealer network they just approve the claim. If they can't see the full service history on their own system they will ask the dealer to submit full documentation and proof that the car has been serviced properly before approving any work, and that requires effort from the dealer - so they'd rather say no. It's not that they want to scam you out of warranty - they just don't want to put the effort in.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#19

Post by [deleted] »

oellegaard wrote: post #13

I own both Mercedes and Skoda (owned by VW) and I feel like both companies are headed in an extremely bad direction. The other day I saw that now Mercedes wants to charge me 200-300 USD/year for navigation and the ability to remotely lock your door. The fact is they let you pay $100k for a car and then they behave like Facebook and other consumer platforms where you pay with your data and can buy add-ons. You can't c…

[deleted]
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