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Trying to use Bluesky without getting burned again

chrisholdgraf.com

191–200 of 561 posts

Re: Trying to use Bluesky without getting burned again

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something isn’t right here; thread notif problems should have been solved a year or so ago. And most apps are not element forks - eg FluffyChat, Nheko, Cinny are all great fully featured apps and separate codebases. The only Element fork i can think of is SchildiChat. Meanwhile matrix-react-sdk doesn’t even exist any more. Are you on a stale build for some reason?

> FluffyChat, Nheko, Cinny are all great fully featured apps and separate codebases Ok, I was mistaken about everything being an Element fork. To move the goalposts slightly though --- do any of these apps properly support threads (i.e. messages in threads show up in and only in separate views)?

Afaik Element Web (and the legacy Element mobile apps) are the only ones which have done threads so far, perhaps because the notif problems you mentioned put off the others. These have been fixed now, but others (even Element X) have yet to catch up.

Re: Trying to use Bluesky without getting burned again

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easier to run your own Mastodon server than your own mail server (for the exact reason you cite).

I never ran my AP server but i did run my own mail in my late teens/early twenties. I don't recall it being particularly difficult, compared to eg setting a webserver. Just install some software from your distro PM and go through some configs. Nothing stopped some hacker from bundling configs with a point and click installer for android eg - A mail server doesnt need 100% uptime - or for servers. As for reaching othe…

Setting up a mail server is now more complicated due to blocking of residential blocks, specific IP addresses needing good reputation, and the general stance taken by most MTAs is to assume senders are guilty until proven innocent. Setting up Mastodon now is easier than setting up email in the past - you don't even have to worry about DKIM or not spamming - most Fedi instances consider other instances innocent until proven guilty, a slow and human-powered process.

Sender-reputation management and anti-spam automation is far advanced and far more stringent for email than it is for Mastodon/the fediverse. Setting up a Mastodon instance is a matter of installing a package and going through a browser wizard comparable to setting up a Wordpress instance, not difficult at all.

Re: Trying to use Bluesky without getting burned again

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think BlueSky is political, Mastodon is worse. Mastodon ends up creating significant echo chambers where admins ban communication with other instances for having people with different opinions to them (rather than just delisting in the public feed) and on can ban you and stop you moving your data to another instance. On Mastodon, admins can also be pressured into banning users by other admins under fear of hav…

Can you please give some more details about the pressure methods in mastodon you are writing about, this is very interesting and important. Is there any systematic study going on about the mechanism of censorship in the fediverse?

Things like one instance banning another whole instance because that instance is not agreeing to the same moderation policies as the first.

I think some instances block all Pleroma instances, because there is an association of Pleroma being used by right wing folks.

Here are failed attempts to ban Pleroma instances outright:

https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/11816 https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/9708

Here's an example of an instance that blocks other instances if the other instance doesn't have a code of conduct similar to theirs:

https://mastodon.art/about

Note - they partially block mastodon.social!

Re: Trying to use Bluesky without getting burned again

#194

When Bluesky announced they were taking on large amounts of capital to handle the growth that's when I knew their days were numbered. Capital requires returns, and a lot of the degradation of the user experience in the past few years is due to catering to investors and advertisers (who are the actual customers). Decentralization as is promised is one way to mitigate this, but there's no economic incentive to go throu…

IMO Mastodon is the only real place for a truly decentralized option. BlueSky became immediately political in its narrative and many people just view it in the same light as Truth Social now. It has a future, but the branding in very tainted.

> BlueSky became immediately political in its narrative and many people just view it in the same light as Truth Social now.

I don't see this at all. Quite the opposite in fact.

From what I've seen, BlueSky is trying very hard as a company to stay apolitical in an extremely naive way that's going to ultimately drive away users. There's simply no way to to be apolitical as a general social media platform today when social media is so widely used for discussing politics and current events, is a key target for propaganda campaigns, and in a highly fractured political climate.

BlueSky gained momentum primarily from people who were driven away from X as it started to move further right, with a lot of engagement driven by left and center-left leaning people, along with people who might not have been directly engaged in politics except for being the target of right-leaning hate campaigns (LGBT people in particular).

If they'd doubled down on that, I think they'd be a lot more successful in the long run. Sites like Truth Social, Parler, and X have demonstrated that there's a significant market for politically aligned social media spaces for the right, and both the significant activity in left and center-left spaces in Twitter before the buy-out, and the growth in Bluesky point to there being a significant market for an unapologeticly left leaning social media site as well (I'd point to Tumblr here as another example, although I don't use it and only have a passing idea that it seems to be a predominantly left leaning space).

Instead of embracing product market fit with an underserved market though, BlueSky seems to be both-sides-ing themselves into a situation where they're likely going to see an exodus. By inviting and protecting right-wing provocateurs on the platform they are driving away their core audience in order to attract people who already have their choice of established competitors (X). The only value they can add over sites like X and Truth Social is a group of users ready to be the target of trolling and bullying, but having recent experience with migrating away from Twitter I don't see them sticking around BlueSky for long in that environment.

In the end, the attempt at being apolitical will doom BlueSky to being a worse less populated X or Truth Social, rather than making the most of the opportunity to be a more decidedly left-leaning social media platform for an audience that prefers to avoid a strong right-wing presence in their social media experience.

Re: Trying to use Bluesky without getting burned again

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you used Bluesky? I’ve been on it since it was invite only and I don’t see any politics on my feed. It’s basically just posts from friends, friends of friends, and artists for me. Bluesky seems the least pushy with rage bait content of all the social media’s.

for me it is extremely political and boring i’ve also found that due to shareable ban lists, im often already banned by someone i want to follow (merely on the basis of who i follow, i don’t think i’ve ever posted on bkuesky)

So your "follow" list is required to be public? Seems like a design flaw.

Re: Trying to use Bluesky without getting burned again

#196

When Bluesky announced they were taking on large amounts of capital to handle the growth that's when I knew their days were numbered. Capital requires returns, and a lot of the degradation of the user experience in the past few years is due to catering to investors and advertisers (who are the actual customers). Decentralization as is promised is one way to mitigate this, but there's no economic incentive to go throu…

I feel like there's a lot of appealing to prevailing HN sentiment in this post. So much so that there's little substance. What actual things are you worried about or unhappy regarding with Bluesky? It's not perfect, and if you have problems with its decentralization posture, Christine Lemmer-Webber has a fantastic post [1] detailing her problems with the protocol. Bluesky has the AT Protocol underneath it and has inf…

> I feel like there's a lot of appealing to prevailing HN sentiment in this post. So much so that there's little substance.

IMO, there was plenty of substance, on things a lot of HNers either don't realize, or disregard.

> that there stops being concrete actionable complaints and more just general anger.

Good point in general (and ironic, since that too is a tired, pervasive condition that somehow still needs pointing out, even if it seems like you're just complaining ineffectually in doing so).

But, since the Bluesky concerns apparently needed to be said, to inform people who appear not to understand, then saying it isn't just complaining.

> At times a cynical portion of me even thinks this sort of posting is just low-key karma farming too, but I know that's too uncharitable a take,

If want to verbalize uncharitable takes on HN, be careful what you start. Your own comment could've been bog-standard damage control astroturfing.

Re: Trying to use Bluesky without getting burned again

#197

When Bluesky announced they were taking on large amounts of capital to handle the growth that's when I knew their days were numbered. Capital requires returns, and a lot of the degradation of the user experience in the past few years is due to catering to investors and advertisers (who are the actual customers). Decentralization as is promised is one way to mitigate this, but there's no economic incentive to go throu…

I feel like there's a lot of appealing to prevailing HN sentiment in this post. So much so that there's little substance. What actual things are you worried about or unhappy regarding with Bluesky? It's not perfect, and if you have problems with its decentralization posture, Christine Lemmer-Webber has a fantastic post [1] detailing her problems with the protocol. Bluesky has the AT Protocol underneath it and has inf…

| What actual things are you worried about or unhappy

That it is following the same funding model that resulted in the problems we've seen. Bluesky currently doesn't generate any significant revenue. At some point they will have to in order to satisfy investors. If they were concerned about preventing the problems previous social media sites experienced, they would have sought out a different funding model.

| if you have problems with its decentralization posture

I don't. I was working on federated social networking protocols back in 2008. I'm fully aware of the concerns and I know it's not a panacea. Centralization has strong benefits for user safety and experience.

| there stops being concrete actionable complaints

My other comments expand on the biggest issue which is the advertiser-optimized engagement algorithm. A site which does not cater to advertising (using an alternative source of income such as a user-driven subscription model) can instead maintain a time-based feed. This is a much better user experience. It doesn't favor negative engagement, it's less addicting, and it doesn't create artificial virality.

Re: Trying to use Bluesky without getting burned again

#198
I’ve been very happy on X. My algo keeps showing me memes and tech stuff. Very little political grandstanding… but it did get a little warm during the election.

A lot of Ai guys are X with cool stuff and still a ton of great posts in Japanese if you can read it.

Re: Trying to use Bluesky without getting burned again

#199
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like there's a lot of appealing to prevailing HN sentiment in this post. So much so that there's little substance. What actual things are you worried about or unhappy regarding with Bluesky? It's not perfect, and if you have problems with its decentralization posture, Christine Lemmer-Webber has a fantastic post [1] detailing her problems with the protocol. Bluesky has the AT Protocol underneath it and has inf…

> I feel like there's a lot of appealing to prevailing HN sentiment in this post. So much so that there's little substance. IMO, there was plenty of substance, on things a lot of HNers either don't realize, or disregard. > that there stops being concrete actionable complaints and more just general anger. Good point in general (and ironic, since that too is a tired, pervasive condition that somehow still needs pointin…

To be clear: I'm not talking about TFA. I'm talking about OP. TFA had substance for sure. But the OP just vaguely talks about taking VC money.

This is distinctive because the AT Protocol exists to specifically prevent the degradation that VC does. So I'm curious what about Bluesky and the AT Protocol are of concern here that VC capture could affect. That's why I linked Christine Lemmer-Webber's post.

> If want to verbalize uncharitable takes on HN, be careful what you start. Your own comment could've been bog-standard damage control astroturfing.

I find that funny that folks think Bluesky has astroturfing around it, but sure you're welcome to think that way. HN is pretty big these days.

Re: Trying to use Bluesky without getting burned again

#200
post #167

When Bluesky announced they were taking on large amounts of capital to handle the growth that's when I knew their days were numbered. Capital requires returns, and a lot of the degradation of the user experience in the past few years is due to catering to investors and advertisers (who are the actual customers). Decentralization as is promised is one way to mitigate this, but there's no economic incentive to go throu…

How has Bluesky degraded?

Bluesky has not yet degraded.

But the funding model it chose has proven to degrade the user experience of every other service.

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