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BioTerrorism Will Save Your Life with the 4 Thieves Vinegar Collective [video]

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Re: BioTerrorism Will Save Your Life with the 4 Thieves Vinegar Collective [video]

#51

Post by fumeux_fume »

NeutralCrane wrote: post #33
portaouflop wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure if you apply enough mental gymnastics you can invalidate any claim. Good faith reading of his argument would be that a custom, artisan crafted hammer is better than a factory made one. I can’t say if that is true or not but using chips as an example- probably the most complex man made thing- is bad faith argumentation

Given that the application here is molecular chemistry aimed at targeting human biology, one of the few problems equally complex as computer chips, I would say their analogy is far more appropriate than a hammer .

That specific sentence is making an analogy using handmade tools. A hammer is an ideal example of a tool. You would expect to find a hammer in a toolbox. A computer chip is not an ideal example of a tool. You would not expect to find a computer chip in a toolbox.

Re: BioTerrorism Will Save Your Life with the 4 Thieves Vinegar Collective [video]

#52

Post by 8bitbeep »

namuol wrote: post #39
8bitbeep wrote: post #18

> We all know that custom, hand-made, artisan-crafted, boutique tools are always better than something factory made. Right. We all know the best chips in the world are made by local artisan silicon-etchers. None of that TSMC pasteurized crap. You simply can't beat a 1nm brush and a steady hand. We all know this industrial revolution thing was a mistake.

I don't think this analogy resonates particularly well with the drug manufacturing process. I would think in general the bulk of the expense of a drug comes from its R&D, not manufacture. The cost of manufacture probably varies wildly (with the most expensive being bespoke treatments), but as the talk shows, there have been many examples where a (relatively) simple-to-manufacture drug is kept from those who need it d…

True, it’s just that the original quote is hard swallow. Try melting sand and polishing your own lenses and compare that to a US$ 5 glass.

Re: BioTerrorism Will Save Your Life with the 4 Thieves Vinegar Collective [video]

#53

Post by soulofmischief »

abduhl wrote: post #49
germandiago wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The story probably has two sides, as you mention. However, I think everyone should be in charge of their own decisions, including taking not approved drugs, without being considered criminals or similar, under their strict own responsibility.

This question is pedantic but I’ll ask it anyways: is it actually illegal to take an unapproved drug? Sale of, marketing for, distribution, etc. all might be (are?) illegal but is TAKING an unapproved drug illegal? I can’t believe it is, there’s an entire industry that peddles nootropics and supplements. My understanding has always been that if you can get it (however that is), you can take it without issue (although…

Depending on the drug, it can be illegal for certain professionals to create, procure or otherwise transfer possession or sell it to you. It's not even illegal to consume heroin or crack in normal circumstances, it's only the possession itself which is illegal.

Depends on the state, but unscheduled drugs don't typically have possession laws. However, if you use an illegal method to acquire them, and in some case all realistic methods are illegal, you can get in trouble for that.

Re: BioTerrorism Will Save Your Life with the 4 Thieves Vinegar Collective [video]

#54

Post by portaouflop »

NeutralCrane wrote: post #33
portaouflop wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure if you apply enough mental gymnastics you can invalidate any claim. Good faith reading of his argument would be that a custom, artisan crafted hammer is better than a factory made one. I can’t say if that is true or not but using chips as an example- probably the most complex man made thing- is bad faith argumentation

Given that the application here is molecular chemistry aimed at targeting human biology, one of the few problems equally complex as computer chips, I would say their analogy is far more appropriate than a hammer .

Creating a medicine such as the ones mentioned in the talk is FAR more simple than creating microchips - as a starter you don’t need a billion dollar worth clean room and equipment as they clearly demonstrate.

So yea human biology is as complex if not more complex I agree - creating medicine after a proven recipe is not.

Re: BioTerrorism Will Save Your Life with the 4 Thieves Vinegar Collective [video]

#55

Post by mistrial9 »

snakeyjake wrote: post #48
Aurornis wrote: post #30

A lot of people miss the fact that this is more art project than practical solution. It’s meant to make a statement, but they have cherry-picked some extremely simple drugs to synthesize to make their point. I have some online friends who met through a forum for their rare condition. The forum they’re in had a splinter group dedicated to getting companies in China to synthesize experimental drugs for them that they c…

>Projects like this convince people that all drugs are actually really easy to make, when in reality this project has carefully selected the most simple examples to make that misleading point. For the last thirty or so years ccc has mainly been a place for people to lie or exaggerate on stage in order to promote their security consulting firm or other freelance project. So this is to be expected. If replication in ps…

ok but the opposite is also annoying.. where professionals make tiny, safe comments, and their management never discloses at all..

SO you get a nightclub environment like a stage.. let them do it, obviously useful things come out sometimes.

Re: BioTerrorism Will Save Your Life with the 4 Thieves Vinegar Collective [video]

#56

Post by portaouflop »

timon999 wrote: post #34
portaouflop wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure if you apply enough mental gymnastics you can invalidate any claim. Good faith reading of his argument would be that a custom, artisan crafted hammer is better than a factory made one. I can’t say if that is true or not but using chips as an example- probably the most complex man made thing- is bad faith argumentation

If someone claims that X is "always"(!) the case, then giving just one example where X is not the case counts as a refutation. The statement that the GP quoted is just obviously false and there is nothing "bad faith" about pointing that out.

The question if there is such a thing as “truth” (an universally true statement) is probably the hardest philosophical problem in humanities history- of course that is not what we were discussing and for that reason your argument here is also in bad faith

Re: BioTerrorism Will Save Your Life with the 4 Thieves Vinegar Collective [video]

#57

Post by Dilettante_ »

Hasu wrote: post #16
georgeburdell wrote: post #7

I’m put off by their website. It seems too well crafted for their main focus to be on their stated goal of giving individuals the tools to treat themselves. The actual aim seems closer to marketing or perhaps influencing public discourse on the subject https://fourthievesvinegar.org/

> It seems too well crafted for their main focus to be on their stated goal of giving individuals the tools to treat themselves. Is this how you think about everything? Do you go to a restaurant with nice chairs and think, "The food here must suck, they spend too much money on the furniture"?

Hell yeah, you know the best food comes from the dingiest joints

Re: BioTerrorism Will Save Your Life with the 4 Thieves Vinegar Collective [video]

#58

Post by cess11 »

mistermann wrote: post #37
portaouflop wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure if you apply enough mental gymnastics you can invalidate any claim. Good faith reading of his argument would be that a custom, artisan crafted hammer is better than a factory made one. I can’t say if that is true or not but using chips as an example- probably the most complex man made thing- is bad faith argumentation

Live by the sword die by the sword.

It's a good day to die.

Re: BioTerrorism Will Save Your Life with the 4 Thieves Vinegar Collective [video]

#60

Post by ba12367fgh »

cjbgkagh wrote: post #46

I’ve procured substantial quantities of gray market (not illegal yet) medication ‘for research purposes’ and can probably safely say that it has indeed saved my life. While the medication was purchased the protocol was of my own design. Like many people with chronic conditions (LongCovid/Chronic Fatigue) I’ve long given up on doctors and only use them when I have to get a prescription. A lot of what I used are the hu…

Could you please share more details on any Long Covid protocols you feel have been helpful?
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