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Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

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Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#141

Post by ant6n »

sandworm101 wrote: post #112
ant6n wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The state railways have large exited night trains as a form of transport, due to economics, although it’s a much more sustainable form of transportation compared to aviation. Since Europe has a liberalized market in the rail sector, some startups are trying to fill the gap. European sleeper operates a night train on the route Brussel-Amsterdam-Berlin-Prague, using old rented rolling stock. I’m involved with Luna Rail…

>> a much more sustainable form of transportation compared to aviation. Night trains are not like normal trains. They carry far fewer passengers per car. That doesn't make them as bad as flying on pure CO2 emissions, but night trains are not as efficient as "trains" generally. They are more comparable to luxury busses. But ... if the other option is an electric car, or even an electric aircraft, then even an electric…

Seating rail cars have 70-90 seats, whereas couchettes have 40-66 beds, but at lower emissions (lower speed->less drag) and higher occupancy (in Germany, occupancy is around 50% for day trains). It’s pretty much a wash. If you mean luxury sleepers, they’re worse sure. None of the startups are really targeting those luxury/low density levels, because of the overall poor impact.

Flying has around 10x the co2eq emissions of trains (300g/km, including infrastructure, occupancy). Cars are still pretty bad, but also don’t compete well for 1000km trips in Europe. It’s basically only aviation at those distances.

Electric airplanes that can do 1000km trips don’t exist. They may exist one day in significant quantities… but perhaps only after we’ve used up all our carbon budget on the path to a 2-3C increase.

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#142

Post by Beijinger »

thatcat wrote: post #132
likeabatterycar wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide sources for the Big Oil conspiracy you cite? Because nationwide high speed rail isn't as easy - or practical - as you think. California hadn't been able to build a train a fraction of that distance without delays and squandering massive amounts of money. The PNW has been unable to build it from Portland to Vancouver. The US is many times larger than any European country or Japan. There are US states s…

China, Russia, and India have high speed rail. Can you cite the reasons that these large countries are capable of building high speed rail while the US is not? Where is the recent innovation in US air travel? It has gotten considerably worse over the last 30 years. Supersonic passenger flights stopped in 2003 around the same time that TSA added hours to every flight.

Policy, The Koch Brothers and "eminent domain" problems in the US.

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#143

Post by folmar »

bitschubser_ wrote: post #2

If you now could just book a train between these cities on a common european platform (or local transportation provider...)... one could dream... just booking a train and getting a quote crossing multiple borders (without interrail) is just a nightmare :(

You can (except for Germany I think, that stopped accepting the tickets issued from international tariff book few years ago), but this will get you the base price, without any possible discounts, so is usually way more expensive than tickets bought directly. But gives you tickets with date change/cancellation possible.

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#144

Post by lodovic »

bloak wrote: post #100
jillesvangurp wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally happened to me yesterday on the way back to Berlin. I arrived 2 hours late. In fairness there was what was labelled "a personal accident" on the track, which is a euphemism for somebody jumping in front of a train. Which unfortunately happens and needs to be dealt with properly and is not really something anybody can do much about. But delays are fairly common on that particular route (Berlin-Amsterdam). Th…

> "a personal accident" on the track, which is a euphemism for somebody jumping in front of a train Removing a body from the track shouldn't take long, of course. The problem is if you need to do detailed forensics because it might have been a murder. At least, I am guessing that's the reason that sometimes a line stays closed for a long time with a lot of police vehicles parked in the vicinity (here in England), whe…

10 to 30 minutes isn't nearly enough time. In my country, when someone is hit by a train, that train is stopped on track and is only allowed to continue after it is fully cleaned up. The train company can't risk rolling into a crowded station when the front of the train still shows evidence of an impact such as having blood on it.

Sometimes the front locomitive gets uncoupled earlier so the train can continue on a different track. But the rule is that passengers in the train should not be exposed to what happened outside the train. It's bad enough that the machinist had to witness it.

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#145

Post by _DeadFred_ »

thatcat wrote: post #132
likeabatterycar wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide sources for the Big Oil conspiracy you cite? Because nationwide high speed rail isn't as easy - or practical - as you think. California hadn't been able to build a train a fraction of that distance without delays and squandering massive amounts of money. The PNW has been unable to build it from Portland to Vancouver. The US is many times larger than any European country or Japan. There are US states s…

China, Russia, and India have high speed rail. Can you cite the reasons that these large countries are capable of building high speed rail while the US is not? Where is the recent innovation in US air travel? It has gotten considerably worse over the last 30 years. Supersonic passenger flights stopped in 2003 around the same time that TSA added hours to every flight.

[flagged]

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#146

Post by JoshTriplett »

sloowm wrote: post #70
bitschubser_ wrote: post #2

If you now could just book a train between these cities on a common european platform (or local transportation provider...)... one could dream... just booking a train and getting a quote crossing multiple borders (without interrail) is just a nightmare :(

You can thank all local train operators for this. They have been fighting a shared ticketing system tooth and nail at the European level and the weak politicians in Europe who don't push for a shared system. There is a legislative proposal but that will take years and operators are going to try and get around it: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/legislative-train/spotlight-J...

What is the rationale for fighting a unified system? A unified system would make it easier to travel by train, which should in theory encourage people to do so more.

Is this a problem of the operators within each country not wanting to be unified with each other because then they'd have to compete more directly? Or is this actually the operators between countries fighting over it for some reason?

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#147

Post by yashap »

portaouflop wrote: post #28

In Germany not so far because the train will be 2+ hours late

Huh really? Whenever I’ve taken the train in Germany it’s been pretty punctual, and looking at the board that’s been the case for most trains. But maybe I just got lucky and/or it’s changed over time.

Flakiest trains I’ve experienced anywhere in Europe were in Italy - rolling strikes among train workers are crazy frequent and cause so many delays and cancellations.

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#148

Post by pontifk8r »

lotsoweiners wrote: post #130
yndoendo wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would travel more around the USA if we had a decedent high-speed rail system. Spent too much time flying, red-eyes, and driving for work, 7-12+ hours one way, and hate those modes of transportation. They may get you from point A to B but your time is wasted along with the enjoyment of the trip. Unfortunately the Oil industry won over the politicians in the USA with donations, legal bribes, and they prevent the buil…

I’m not sure about that. I’d imagine that trains are going to have the worst of both worlds. They will take a long time (closer to amount of time to drive to destination). They also will have costs approaching that of a flight. To me a train trip makes sense if you enjoy trains and feel that the travel itself is part of the reward.

As a US person who has, You need to experience euro train travel. The whole experience, from booking using an app to waiting for a train. You’ll find the apps are good, the schedule information accurate and up to date. The apps don’t do stupid things mostly. When you arrive at the station, you’ll find it generally clean and well maintained. Signage is clear and tied into the train information system. Arrival times accurate. You can get a nice sandwich if the shop is open. Intercity Trains are modern and fast. Lots of power ports to plug in your phone. Nice seats. Also great electronic signage in the train. You might even have good wifi. You would not be afraid to use a bathroom in a station or on a train. Best part is that you CAN rely on the trains. Nothing like Amtrak where if it’s on time it’s remarkable.

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#149

Post by JoshTriplett »

mrweasel wrote: post #36
matwood wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if your train leaves at 0700 you can’t plan to get there at 06:59 True, but 6:50 is plenty early enough depending on if you know the station and the size. Getting to and from the stations are a wash because it's not like the airport drops you at the door either. Though, many EU cities have the train station near the city center which makes it easier for people to get to than the airport.

Unless you don't happen to live within the city center. Train stations frequently have zero long term parking, while airport frequently have cheap or even free long term parking. If you need to take the train where I live, then you're better of driving to the airport and park there. Then take a train or bus to the city center and the train station. I did like to take the train more often, but travel times are just to…

> Unless you don't happen to live within the city center. Train stations frequently have zero long term parking, while airport frequently have cheap or even free long term parking. If you need to take the train where I live, then you're better of driving to the airport and park there. Then take a train or bus to the city center and the train station.

If you'd have to pay for long-term parking, why not instead pay for a taxi or Uber to the train station?

Re: Where can you go in Europe by train in 8h?

#150

Post by ricardobayes »

What a shame we don't have yet a high-speed line between Lisbon and Madrid. Two "sibling" countries, intertwined Iberian history and heritage, yet to travel between the capitals it's a 17-hour journey passing through Lisbon, Porto, Vigo (Galicia) and then Madrid.
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