Live data from Hacker News

The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

orkohunter.net

271–280 of 473 posts

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#271

I regularly say yes to work dinners and such that I don’t personally want to attend. That sort of thing is far outside my comfort zone, and that’s exactly why I do it. It’s good exercise to pretend to be outgoing and chatty for an evening. Like any other skill, you get better at it with practice! And the author here is so right: almost everyone else at these things besides the salespeople are probably also introverts…

Ever since I stopped doing this I’ve been much happier. Now that I’m old I don’t feel pressure to conform to social norms, I just do whatever I want. If that means I don’t see anyone else for weeks who cares. In my youth I felt so much pressure to be social and it’s just not what I want to be doing.

[dead]

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#272
post #231
post #178

This feels like the author has made the assumption that since they are an introvert, all introverts are like them. However, I think that introversion, like most things is a continuum, not binary. Take the characterization of introverts in the article: "They would rather sit in front of the computer than go out during the yearly college social fest." For me it isn't just a matter of "I'd rather be in front of a comput…

I've heard one way a parent can help a shy child is to have them look after much younger children. Even very shy children seem to be able to manage talking to less-experienced, less-intimidating, pipsqueaks. Wonder if there's a way to take that tack.

lol pipsqueaks funny word

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a spectrum - most of us are ambiverts.

I'm not convinced it's a single dimension, either. I suspect it's less a spectrum and more of a blotch.

Considering we're talking about real people and the real conversations you have with them, definitely. The 5 people I talk to and the patterns I've come to expect from socializing with them, and the way that those patterns interact with my own behavior, don't really have a neat apples-to-apples comparison with your 5 people and their patterns and how you interact with those patterns, etc. We could both be calling ourselves introverts and extrapolating wildly different chains of observations and predictions about how those hypothetical conversations would be affecting the other one's energy levels, etc.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#275
This article mixes up a bunch of different things.

Being a good communicator doesn't mean you have to be an "extrovert at work". There are many different styles of communication. I tend to be the guy who prefers async communication, will write explanatory comments on my own PRs, documents the WIP state on my tickets (especially before weekends or vacations etc.). Others are the kinds of people that'll happily go over a PR in a call. You just have to find modes of working that sort of work for everyone.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#276
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a general problem with language.

Yes, but some terms have more trouble with it than others, and if the term cannot converge on a clear, repeatable definition over time, questioning the utility of the term seems reasonable. Eg the terms "red" and "green" have largely converged on specific, useful meanings over time. Even more abstract words like "freedom" have mostly clear definitions (although definitely also have variance!). Introvert/extrovert I w…

Language is constructive, basically people make it up and the "definitions" are none, they are actually after-the-fact formalizations. Whatever humans do to the word "Introvert" now will be its "definition" in 20 years.

Print out some rainbow and ask people to draw the line between "red" and "not-red". That would prove that convergence didn't happen and would nicely show why it probably never will.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#277
I’m not good with words, but I’m good at thinking. That leads me to listen more than I talk during gatherings. To listen is to concentrate, doubly so for crowded events. You need to think about what the person is saying, and you need to filter out the noise around you. No, try to talk instead of listen and see how that feels. Change the equation. Let others come up with good responses to your ramblings for once. Of course, this can feel a bit egotistic. The other way around it is to stop caring that much what the other person is saying. We're all here talking shit. At the end of the day, what matters is if you were seen, if the other person felt seen and validated. That's what's great about talking to another person. You got seen by an animal that can understand you the most: humans.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#278
I really wish people could ditch the "introvert vs. extrovert" framing. As a label, it is not helpful for anyone's personal growth.

People think salespeople are some kind of natural "extrovert". I hate to break it to you, but cold calling is draining for everyone. Salespeople may get particularly good at reducing the emotional expenditure involved in making cold calls, to be able to making a lot of them for long periods, but it is fundamentally a practice where one expends energy out into the world and gets absolutely nothing in return. I promise you, any salesperson making cold calls with no "nibbles on the line" eventually begins to doubt themselves and looks to make an exit. This is also why online dating is so draining for so many people, despite applications not inducing any "social interaction" like actual conversation - if you invest emotional energy into something that does not return emotional energy to you, then you will drain yourself if you are not careful.

On the other end of the spectrum, there are specific, individual people in our lives who fill us with energy and joy, who we love to spend time with. These are people we "vibe" with, who are on our wavelength, so to speak. When you have someone, maybe even more than one, such person in your life, I doubt you would like to spend less time with them.

Social skills are about finding more people who give you energy and resisting people who drain your energy. Finding more people who give you energy is, yes, a cold-calling skill, one where you take the risk of investing, from time to time, a small and limited amount of energy in the universe in the hope of finding a social energy return. But it is also about resisting people who drain your energy. Sometimes we need to interact with people in our families or at work who we can't just cut out of our lives, for one reason or another, who drain us. One can hardly be faulted for not having the energy, at the end of the day, to go network at some social function when they're already drained. But it is also that person's responsibility to learn to manage their emotional energy so that they will have some for the cold-calling that is necessary to find the people we vibe with. You do not need to vibe with everyone, and framing people with really good cold-calling skills as "extroverts" avoids the fact that such people do not actually vibe with everyone, they are just better at both the cold-calling skills involved as well as managing their emotional energy levels.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#279

This author is deeply deeply misunderstanding other humans. They are applying a "it worked for me, therefore it works for all" mentality. And worse yet, coming to the wrong conclusions. You do not need to be an extrovert at work to get ahead. Full stop. Does it help in some ways? Sure, but you can be equally successful as an introvert as long as you are able to communicate clearly when needs demand it. Plenty of exce…

Success is about the skills, contributions and value you bring to the table, not about how much you talk

I think career success is purely whether people like you or not.

Your skills and contributions don't matter at all as long as they are not so bad that people absolutely can not ignore it. Companies are mostly build on diffusing individual responsibility. Even if you majorly mess up as long as the right people like you you will be fine.

Doesn't mean one needs to be an extrovert. Just have good social skills in general. It really depends on what your superiors prefer and the general company culture. Sometimes being quiet and not sticking out can be an asset as well. Sometimes people will like you because you have (or pretend to have) deep technical knowledge, sometimes they will hate you because you make them feel inferior and it is better to play dumb. Know your audience.

Post reply on HN