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GPT-5 is behind schedule

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Re: GPT-5 is behind schedule

#51
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of this Louis CK joke: I was on an airplane and there was high-speed Internet on the airplane. That's the newest thing that I know exists. And I'm sitting on the plane and they go, open up your laptop, you can go on the Internet. And it's fast, and I'm watching YouTube clips. It's amazing. I'm on an airplane! And then it breaks down. And they apologize, the Internet's not working. And the guy next to me go…

People who say „it’s bullshit” are the ones that push the technological advance forward.

No, people who say "it's bullshit" and then do something to fix the bullshit are the ones that push technology forward. Most people who say "it's bullshit" instantly when something isn't perfect for exactly what they want right now are just whingers and will never contribute anything except unconstructive criticism.

Re: GPT-5 is behind schedule

#52

Everyone's comparing o1 and claude, but neither really work well enough to justify paying for them in my experience for coding. What I really want is a mode where they ask clarifying questions , ideally many of them, before spitting out an answer. This would greatly improve utility of producing something with more value than an auto-complete.

Just tell it to do that and it will. Whenever I ask an AI for something and I'm pretty sure it doesn't have all the context I literally just say "ask me clarifying questions until you have enough information to do a great job on this."

Re: GPT-5 is behind schedule

#53
post #48
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"With o3 now public knowledge, imagine how long it’s been churning out new thinking at expert level across every field." I highly doubt that. o3 is many orders of magnitude more expensive than paying subject matter experts to create new data. It just doesn't make sense to pay six figures in compute to get o3 to make data a human could make for a few hundred dollars.

That’s an interesting idea. What if OpenAI funded medical research initiatives in exchange for exclusive training rights on the research.

It would be orders of magnitude cheaper to outsource to humans.

Re: GPT-5 is behind schedule

#54
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s an interesting idea. What if OpenAI funded medical research initiatives in exchange for exclusive training rights on the research.

It would be orders of magnitude cheaper to outsource to humans.

Not as sexy to investors though

Re: GPT-5 is behind schedule

#56
post #13
post #7

The world is figuring out how to make this technology fit and work and somehow this is "behind" schedule. It's almost comical.

[flagged]

That was puzzles me now. Everyone with a semblance of expertise in engineering knows that if you start with a tool and try to find a problem it could solve you are doing it wrong. The right way is the opposite - you start with a problem, and find the best tool to solve it, and if it's the new shiny tool - so be it, but most of the time it's not.

Except the whole tech world starting with the CEOs seems to do it the "wrong" way with LLMs. People and whole companies are encouraged to find what these things might be actually useful for.

Re: GPT-5 is behind schedule

#57
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say the same. I've tried a bunch of different AI tools, and none of them really seem all that helpful.

One use-case: They help with learning things quickly by having a chat and asking questions. And they never get tired or emotional. Tutoring 24/7. They also generate small code or scripts, as well as automate small things, when you're not sure how, but you know there's a way. You need to ensure you have a way to verify the results. They do language tasks like grammar-fixing, perfect translation, etc. They're 100 times…

They can't help you learn what they don't know themselves.

I'm trying to use them to read historical handwritten documents in old Norwegian (Danish, pretty much). Not only do they not handle the German-style handwriting, but what they spit out looks like the sort of thing GPT-2 would spit out if you asked it to write Norwegian (only slightly better than Swedish Muppet Swedish Chef's Swedish). It seems the experimental tuning has made it worse at the task I most desperately want to use it for.

And when you think about it, how could it not overfit in some sense, when trained on its own output? No new information is coming in, so it pretty much has to get worse at something to get better at all the benchmarks.

Re: GPT-5 is behind schedule

#58

Counterpoint: o1-Pro is insanely good -- subjectively, it's as far above GPT4 as GPT4 was above 3. It's almost too good. Use it properly for an extended period of time, and one begins to worry about the future of one's children and the utility of their schooling. o3, by all accounts, is better still. Seems to me that things are progressing quickly enough.

I had a 30 min argument with o1-pro where it was convinced it had solved the halting problem. Tried to gaslight me into thinking I just didn’t understand the subtlety of the argument. But it’s susceptible to appeal to authority and when I started quoting snippets of textbooks and mathoverflow it finally relented and claimed there had been a “misunderstanding”. It really does argue like a human though now...

Re: GPT-5 is behind schedule

#59
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep reading this on HN so I believe it has to be true in some ways, but I don't really feel like there is any difference in my limited use (programming questions or explaining some concepts). If anything I feel like it's all been worse compared to the first release of ChatGPT, but I might be wearing rose colored glasses.

It’s the same for me. I genuinely don’t understand how I can be having such a completely different experience from the people who rave about ChatGPT. Every time I’ve tried it’s been useless. How can some people think it’s amazing and has completely changed how they work, while for me it makes mistakes that a static analyser would catch? It’s not like I’m doing anything remarkable, for the past couple of months I’ve b…

> How can some people think it’s amazing and has completely changed how they work, while for me it makes mistakes that should a static analyser would catch? It’s not like I’m doing anything remarkable, for the past couple of months I’ve been doing fairly standard web dev and it can’t even fix basic problems with HTML.

Part of this is, I think, anchoring and expectation management: you hear people say it's amazing and wonderful, and then you see it fall over and you're naturally disappointed.

My formative years started off with Commodore 64 basic going "?SYNTAX ERROR" from most typos plus a lot of "I don't know what that means" from the text adventures, then Metrowerks' C compiler telling me there were errors on every line *after but not including* the one where I forgot the semicolon, then surprises in VisualBasic and Java where I was getting integer division rather than floats, then the fantastic oddity where accidentally leaning on the option key on a mac keyboard while pressing minus turns the minus into an n-dash which looked completely identical to a minus on the Xcode default font at the time and thus produced a very confusing compiler error…

So my expectations have always been low for machine generated output. And it has wildly exceeded those low expectations.

But the expectation management goes both ways, especially when the comparison is "normal humans" rather than "best practices". I've seen things you wouldn't believe...

  Entire files copy-pasted line for line, "TODO: deduplicate" and all,
  20 minute app starts passed off as "optimized solutions."
  FAQs filled with nothing but Bob Ross quotes,
  a zen garden of "happy little accidents."

  I watched iOS developers use UI tests
  as a complete replacement for storyboards,
  bi-weekly commits, each a sprawling novel of despair,
  where every change log was a tragic odyssey.

  Google Spreadsheets masquerading as bug trackers,
  Swift juniors not knowing their ! from their ?,
  All those hacks and horrors… lost in time,
  Time to deploy.
(All true, and all pre-dating ChatGPT).

> It will suggest things that just don’t work at all and my IDE catches, it invents APIs for packages.

Aye. I've even had that with models forgetting the APIs they themselves have created, just outside the context window.

To me, these are tools. They're fantastic tools, but they're not something you can blindly fire-and-forget…

…fortunately for me, because my passive income is not quite high enough to cover mortgage payments, and I'm looking for work.

> In five years are we going to end up with a bunch of “senior engineers” who don’t actually understand what they’re doing?

Yes, if we're lucky.

If we're not, the models keep getting better and we don't have any "senior engineers" at all.

Re: GPT-5 is behind schedule

#60
post #50

What we can reasonably assume from statements made by insiders: They want a 10x improvement from scaling and a 10x improvement from data and algorithmic changes The sources of public data are essentially tapped Algorithmic changes will be an unknown to us until they release, but from published research this remains a steady source of improvement Scaling seems to stall if data is limited So with all of that taken toge…

I’m curious how, if at all, the plan to get around compounding bias in synthetic data generated by models trained in synthetic data.

Everyone's obsessed with new training tokens... It doesn't need to be more knowledgeable, it just needs to practice more. Ask any student: practice is synthetic data.
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