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GPT-5 is behind schedule

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Re: GPT-5 is behind schedule

#21
Everyone's comparing o1 and claude, but neither really work well enough to justify paying for them in my experience for coding. What I really want is a mode where they ask clarifying questions, ideally many of them, before spitting out an answer. This would greatly improve utility of producing something with more value than an auto-complete.

Re: GPT-5 is behind schedule

#22
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep reading this on HN so I believe it has to be true in some ways, but I don't really feel like there is any difference in my limited use (programming questions or explaining some concepts). If anything I feel like it's all been worse compared to the first release of ChatGPT, but I might be wearing rose colored glasses.

I'd say the same. I've tried a bunch of different AI tools, and none of them really seem all that helpful.

One use-case: They help with learning things quickly by having a chat and asking questions. And they never get tired or emotional. Tutoring 24/7.

They also generate small code or scripts, as well as automate small things, when you're not sure how, but you know there's a way. You need to ensure you have a way to verify the results.

They do language tasks like grammar-fixing, perfect translation, etc.

They're 100 times easier and faster than search engines, if you limit your uses to that.

Re: GPT-5 is behind schedule

#23
post #7

The world is figuring out how to make this technology fit and work and somehow this is "behind" schedule. It's almost comical.

Reminds me of this Louis CK joke: I was on an airplane and there was high-speed Internet on the airplane. That's the newest thing that I know exists. And I'm sitting on the plane and they go, open up your laptop, you can go on the Internet. And it's fast, and I'm watching YouTube clips. It's amazing. I'm on an airplane! And then it breaks down. And they apologize, the Internet's not working. And the guy next to me go…

People who say „it’s bullshit” are the ones that push the technological advance forward.

Re: GPT-5 is behind schedule

#25
What we can reasonably assume from statements made by insiders:

They want a 10x improvement from scaling and a 10x improvement from data and algorithmic changes

The sources of public data are essentially tapped

Algorithmic changes will be an unknown to us until they release, but from published research this remains a steady source of improvement

Scaling seems to stall if data is limited

So with all of that taken together, the logical step is to figure out how to turn compute into better data to train on. Enter strawberry / o1, and now o3

They can throw money, time, and compute at thinking about and then generating better training data. If the belief is that N billion new tokens of high quality training data will unlock the leap in capabilities they’re looking for, then it makes sense to delay the training until that dataset is ready

With o3 now public knowledge, imagine how long it’s been churning out new thinking at expert level across every field. OpenAI’s next moat may be the best synthetic training set ever.

At this point I would guess we get 4.5 with a subset of this - some scale improvement, the algorithmic pickups since 4 was trained, and a cleaned and improved core data set but without risking leakage of the superior dataset

When 5 launches, we get to see what a fully scaled version looks like with training data that outstrips average humans in almost every problem space

Then the next o-model gets to start with that as a base and reason? Its likely to be remarkable

Re: GPT-5 is behind schedule

#26
post #5

Counterpoint: o1-Pro is insanely good -- subjectively, it's as far above GPT4 as GPT4 was above 3. It's almost too good. Use it properly for an extended period of time, and one begins to worry about the future of one's children and the utility of their schooling. o3, by all accounts, is better still. Seems to me that things are progressing quickly enough.

I keep reading this on HN so I believe it has to be true in some ways, but I don't really feel like there is any difference in my limited use (programming questions or explaining some concepts). If anything I feel like it's all been worse compared to the first release of ChatGPT, but I might be wearing rose colored glasses.

It’s the same for me. I genuinely don’t understand how I can be having such a completely different experience from the people who rave about ChatGPT. Every time I’ve tried it’s been useless.

How can some people think it’s amazing and has completely changed how they work, while for me it makes mistakes that a static analyser would catch? It’s not like I’m doing anything remarkable, for the past couple of months I’ve been doing fairly standard web dev and it can’t even fix basic problems with HTML. It will suggest things that just don’t work at all and my IDE catches, it invents APIs for packages.

One guy I work with uses it extensively and what it produces is essentially black boxes. If I find a problem with something “he” (or rather ChatGPT) has produced it takes him ages to commune with the machine spirit again to figure out how to fix it, and then he still doesn’t understand it.

I can’t help but see this as a time-bomb, how much completely inscrutable shite are these tools producing? In five years are we going to end up with a bunch of “senior engineers” who don’t actually understand what they’re doing?

Before people cry “o tempora o mores” at me and make parallels with the introduction of high-level languages, at least in order to write in a high-level language you need some basic understanding of the logic that is being executed.

Re: GPT-5 is behind schedule

#27

Everyone's comparing o1 and claude, but neither really work well enough to justify paying for them in my experience for coding. What I really want is a mode where they ask clarifying questions , ideally many of them, before spitting out an answer. This would greatly improve utility of producing something with more value than an auto-complete.

have you tested that this helps? seems pretty simple to script with an agent framework

Re: GPT-5 is behind schedule

#29
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

There's someone with this comment in every thread. Meanwhile, no one answers this because they are getting value. Please take the time to learn, it will give you value.

I’m a consultant. Having looked at several enterprises, there’s a lot of work being done to make a lot of things that don’t really work.

The bigger the ambition, the harder they’re failing. Some well designed isolated use cases are ok. Mostly things about listening and summarizing text to aid humans.

I have yet to see a successful application that is generating good content. IMO replacing the first draft of content creation and having experts review and fix it is, like, the stupidest strategy you can do. The people you replace are the people at the bottom of the pyramid who are supposed do this work to upskill and become domain experts so they can later review stuff. If they’re no longer needed, you’re going to one day lose your reviewer, and with it, the ability to assess your generated drafts. It’s a foot gun.

Re: GPT-5 is behind schedule

#30

What we can reasonably assume from statements made by insiders: They want a 10x improvement from scaling and a 10x improvement from data and algorithmic changes The sources of public data are essentially tapped Algorithmic changes will be an unknown to us until they release, but from published research this remains a steady source of improvement Scaling seems to stall if data is limited So with all of that taken toge…

> With o3 now public knowledge, imagine how long it’s been churning out new thinking at expert level across every field. OpenAI’s next moat may be the best synthetic training set ever.

Even taking OpenAI and the benchmark authors at their word they said that it is consuming at least tens of dollars per task to hit peak performance, how much would it cost to have it produce a meaningfully large training set?

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