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Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

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Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#281

Post by fy20 »

lostlogin wrote: post #271
philjohn wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the UK and with solar and battery, and having an EV there are tariffs out there where the levellised cost you'll pay is approaching 7p per kWh. Intelligent Octopus Go is one example - between 23:30 and 05:30 all of your electricity usage is 7p per kWh, for the entire house. For this, you give up controlling when your EV is charged as Octopus either control it through the car, or through a compatible charger. W…

Is that payback time with a battery? It’s about 7 years without and 10-12 with here in New Zealand. I get some installed next month.

I'm in Northern Europe (54N) and when I had solar installed 3 years ago I calculated it would be around 7 years, without incentives and without a battery. The price has dropped a lot since then, so it would be under 5 years now.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#283

Post by fy20 »

wiether wrote: post #94
hughes wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I thought this was monthly. The article doesn't specify, and all other bills I've seen are monthly. Do Brits pay annually?

Electricity consumption will vary during the year so it seems fair to give the yearly total to have the actual cost; and you can divide by twelve if your prefer a monthly average. Meanwhile, if they only gave a monthly figure, one could wonder if it's an average or if it's taken in January or July.

Many UK homes have electric heating or use supplemental electric heaters during winter, so the consumption of summer vs winter changes a lot.

This is why there has been a big push for offshore wind in the UK, it's an island that has strong winds during winter.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#284

Post by fy20 »

trebligdivad wrote: post #51

How much does digging a hole or laying a cable cost here in the UK compared to elsewhere? I'm just trying to get a feel for whether things like the transmission/distribution network costs are higher than elsewhere.

I'm in another Northern European country, and 7c/kWh goes towards network and transmission costs.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#285

Post by lowsong »

pfdietz wrote: post #252
switch007 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We mostly don't have AC, we have tiny houses, our heating is gas powered. Lots of showers aren't electric either. We don't use huge amounts compared to the US

When you switch to heat pumps you'll get AC for no extra capital cost.

Unfortunately not. Most houses in the UK are heated using a 'central heating' loop. A closed loop of water that circulated through pipes run through the house and through large radiators in each room. A central boiler, usually a gas boiler, burns gas to heat and circulate this loop to provide whole-house heating, while also typically using a heat exchanger to heat the intake cold drinking water supply into a whole house hot drinking water. (Thus, most houses have cold, hot, and central heating piping).

If you switch out the gas boiler for a heat pump, it can still heat the hot water and heat the central heating loop. But it can't provide cooling that way. There is no infrastructure in most houses to run AC ducting or refrigerant pipes.

You might think that you could simply cool the water in the central heating loop, and therefore make all of the radiators very cold, and use that to move heat out of rooms. In theory that might work, but in most houses these central heating pipes are not insulated and run under floorboards. If you make them cold then they'll cause condensation, leading to water in all kinds of small spaces, and likely leading to warping, damage, or mould.

In the UK, retrofitting AC into an existing house is a huge undertaking in most cases.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#286

Post by fulafel »

Xelbair wrote: post #134
monsecchris wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s so insignificant that at best we might delay the climate catastrophe by a few seconds

People might not like this, but that's true. as long as non-western countries keep polluting - even if we achieve net-zero nothing will change other than us feeling better and patting ourselves in the back.

And as long as oil producing countries (hello uk/us) keep pumping it out. We need intl agreements to ramp this down fast.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#287

Post by akira2501 »

ericd wrote: post #255
akira2501 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> simply nobody knew how bad It was a 100 year old C hook that caused the fire. Which failed in high winds. Which drove the fire. It was PG&E's responsibility to know "how bad" this was. They literally lost track of their own transmission lines.

If it wasn’t that, wouldn’t it have been a lightning strike, or something else? Fundamentally, the problem is that the houses were in an area that has become incredibly flammable. It’s not all PG&E’s fault.

Those have been known to start smaller fires before. Management strategies for them and recognition of the conditions that give rise to them were implemented. This fire burned worse than before because of poor maintenance on and around the line and because they did not shut it off quickly enough to prevent additional damage. The line was in a remote location and access to it was severely degraded.

Fundamentally the problem can be solved with management and engineering. It's entirely PG&E's fault. This was adjudicated and settled.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#288

Post by akira2501 »

tehlike wrote: post #278
akira2501 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've apparently never had power run out to a new property that's not had it before. You pay for that. The poles, the lines, the installation. The power company doesn't just run power to you because you ask. They subsidize themselves. Then PG&E takes the money, leaves 100 year old equipment in place, which inevitably breaks, and burns down an entire forest along with their homes. You genuinely think these people are…

Subsidizing in an insurance sense. It's a high risk area, insurance should have covered it. If it was too high risk, insurance shouldn't have covered it, or charge much more etc.

Insurance premiums are different for different people and are decided by underwriters based on expected risk. What subsidy are they receiving on those premiums? They were previously paying a special property tax to cover the additional fire services required for the area. This is not a particularly high income area.

Meanwhile everyone in Sacramento can buy federally subsidized flood insurance. The federal government also built the levees surrounding the county. The entire downtown core had to be jacked up several feet due to persistent flooding. Should everyone in Sacramento move too? Should we end the insurance subsidy?

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#289

Post by gazoakley »

danw1979 wrote: post #258
Already__Taken wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you in the north of the N/S smart meter divide? I wonder if that has a lot do with experiences.

Please do elaborate …

See here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq52382zd1no.amp

Octopus have started doing things like connecting properties in the north to cellular type meters (not supposed to) or using Octopus Mini hubs (connects smart meters using WiFi) as a way of trying to solve the problems

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#290

Post by wiether »

lostlogin wrote: post #272
wiether wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electricity consumption will vary during the year so it seems fair to give the yearly total to have the actual cost; and you can divide by twelve if your prefer a monthly average. Meanwhile, if they only gave a monthly figure, one could wonder if it's an average or if it's taken in January or July.

> Electricity consumption will vary during the year We heat with a wood burner and so have very flat usage over a year. Heating requirements are lower here in Auckland, New Zealand.

During winter the days are shorter so the lights are on more often.

People tend to eat/drink more heated things than during summer (think coffee maker and microwave ovens).

They also tend to spend more time inside due to the weather so they use things needing electricity (TV, computer, radio...).

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