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Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

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Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#231

Post by weebull »

fragmede wrote: post #146
Xelbair wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People might not like this, but that's true. as long as non-western countries keep polluting - even if we achieve net-zero nothing will change other than us feeling better and patting ourselves in the back.

Knocking the western 30% of pollution down to zero is still meaningful, even if the remaining 70% isn't affected (which it will be). China, one is the most polluting non-western countries, is going to renewables and electric vehicles at a faster rate than some of the western countries.

> China, one is the most polluting non-western countries, is going to renewables and electric vehicles at a faster rate than some of the western countries.

Its not "going to renewables". It's building the fastest amount of renewable generation, but that's new capacity, not replacement. It's also building the most coal plants and nuclear plants and anything else. It's all new capacity.

Same with cars. Most EVs and most ICes.

China is growing, and is doing so in all directions.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#232

Post by akira2501 »

XorNot wrote: post #203
alecco wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* acording to CCP's reported numbers

The CCP is at least heavily motivated to get rid of coal because the wealthy and leadership can't buy their way out of Shanghai's smog problem.

They're on track to build 12 _new_ coal plants this year.

Why do people believe they're operating in good faith?

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#233

Post by tmnvix »

Important to remember the process of privitisation that occurred and the opportunities for profiteering that the new complexity allowed.

Yanis Varoufakis discusses it at length here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3bo-s_OY4Q

He characterises the energy market as a scam. I tend to agree.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#234

Post by akira2501 »

piva00 wrote: post #85
graybeardhacker wrote: post #64

The graph shows the price for 3100 kWh. I'm not sure if that is a very low annual amount or a very very high monthly amount. The average US household uses 10,000 kWh annually ~833 kWh per month. So I'm guessing most Americans reading the article and looking at the interactive graph are thinking either: this is very cheap or very expensive, depending on whether they are assuming it's monthly or annual. In the US the a…

Median income and take home pay should be brought into account though. California has one of the highest even by US standards so a $1000 bill for the median Californian family feels much less expensive than for the median Manchester family.

There are no median families. There are a lot of very high wage earners in CA. You should really be looking for the mode here.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#235

Post by akira2501 »

Nextgrid wrote: post #130
jstanley wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why do you need smart meters at the level of individual houses? Wouldn't putting them on substations get the same benefit with much less cost?

In a competent implementation, real-time metering can enable near-real-time pricing where consumers are incentivized to vary their consumption to help grid stability. Your EV can modulate its charging very quickly, and "background" loads like electric heating, water heater or even A/C can also be modulated somewhat quickly (though not as quick as an EV's inverter). The meter needs however to make sure you indeed comp…

> where consumers are incentivized to vary their consumption to help grid stability.

If the grid is not stable then it needs upgrades. Automated austerity to cover a backlog of undone work is madness.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#236

Post by akira2501 »

tehlike wrote: post #14
tristor wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a bit of color on that, since those homes weren't worth $0 until PG&E caused a fire that burnt them down by neglecting required maintenance.

In a way it's subsidizing people in the country side.

You've apparently never had power run out to a new property that's not had it before. You pay for that. The poles, the lines, the installation. The power company doesn't just run power to you because you ask. They subsidize themselves.

Then PG&E takes the money, leaves 100 year old equipment in place, which inevitably breaks, and burns down an entire forest along with their homes.

You genuinely think these people are being "subsidized" by all this? That it's their fault the PG&E top brass didn't earn a bonus that year?

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#237

Post by akira2501 »

cogman10 wrote: post #47
tristor wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's making people whole for real monetary and property damages caused by PG&E's negligence. It's the settlement of a lawsuit, because PG&E was negligent and caused damage. Whether those people rebuild in Paradise, CA or move somewhere else with the money they received from the settlement is an entirely different proposition. This is not "subsidizing people in the country side". PG&E fucked up and now they have t…

I'm not saying PG&E shouldn't pay out, they were directly responsible. But I will say that Paradise was in a bad state prior to the fire, simply nobody knew how bad. While a wildfire like that wasn't guaranteed, they were just one bad lightning strike away from the same disaster. Funding FEMA, forest management services, and wildfire fighters something that isn't always prioritized and it should be.

> simply nobody knew how bad

It was a 100 year old C hook that caused the fire. Which failed in high winds. Which drove the fire. It was PG&E's responsibility to know "how bad" this was. They literally lost track of their own transmission lines.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#238

Post by dukeyukey »

hughes wrote: post #79
dukeyukey wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Annually, that sounds about right.

Oh, I thought this was monthly. The article doesn't specify, and all other bills I've seen are monthly. Do Brits pay annually?

No, we pay monthly, but because we're a cold country that doesn't have widespread domestic air con, energy usage is _way_ higher in winter, so talking about monthly averages doesn't make much sense.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#239

Post by flir »

graemep wrote: post #165
threeseed wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very misguided view of the situation. a) The transition to clean energy, transportation etc by Western countries funds the development and investment in new technologies. These then filter down to developing countries when the economies of scale kick in e.g. solar panels, electric cars. b) There are also other benefits to cleaner solutions than just trying to achieve net-zero. Reductions in pollution reduce…

I think you overestimate the importance of what the West does. The West no longer dominates the world economically. Things no longer filter down the rest of the world as simply as you think. China is a bigger economy than any Western economy than the US, and is growing. India is about as big as any European economy. Both, and many other countries are doing more and more of their own R & D and have their own agendas.

It's not about the west (or anyone in particular) doing the R&D, it's about the west providing a market for that R&D.

Although having said that, I do note this: https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/11/china-...

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