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Torpedo juice: Legendary, illegal WWII liquor drunk in Alaska and the world

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Re: Torpedo juice: Legendary, illegal WWII liquor drunk in Alaska and the world

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The torpedo grade ethanol (fuel grade alcohol generally) necessitates quality control than ethanol for consumption because it has to pair with a precise number of oxygen molecules (which in the case of a torpedo are pre-allocated so you can't just tolerate it running lean or rich without a huge change in range) and produce known energy in the process and calling a bunch of subs and ships back to have their ethanol te…

> The cleanliness and hygiene controls along the way are going to be lesser. It's not like it's being made in a food factory. Sincere question: isn't "hygiene" usually referring only to bacteria, viruses and other organic contamination? Don't get me wrong, I'm with you that I'd worry about contamination with all kinds of other toxic stuff.

You really got me wondering about that. I can't find a definitive answer, but Wikipedia certainly suggests it is:

> The terms cleanliness and hygiene are often used interchangeably, which can cause confusion. In general, hygiene refers to practices that prevent spread of disease-causing organisms. Cleaning processes (e.g., handwashing) remove infectious microbes as well as dirt and soil, and are thus often the means to achieve hygiene.

> Home hygiene pertains to the hygiene practices that prevent or minimize the spread of disease at home and other everyday settings such as social settings, public transport, the workplace, public places, and more. Hygiene in a variety of settings plays an important role in preventing the spread of infectious diseases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene

It does seem like hygiene controls are going to be concerned exclusively with infectious disease, while cleanliness is going to prevent broader contamination of anything toxic.

Re: Torpedo juice: Legendary, illegal WWII liquor drunk in Alaska and the world

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read somewhere that some Soviet jets used huge quantities of alcohol for cooling.

Specifically the Tu-22 is known for this.

MiG-21 radars used high quality pure ethanol in evaporating cooling system

Re: Torpedo juice: Legendary, illegal WWII liquor drunk in Alaska and the world

#63
post #6

See also the Mark 14 torpedo, the primary American torpedo in WWII, which didn't actually work for the first 2 years of the war because they had never bothered to actually test it because it would be too expensive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_14_torpedo

>because it would be too expensive.

Specifically, they didn't want to waste 1-10 torpedoes for testing, which maybe that can be defensible, but it became utterly indefensible when every single submarine came back from patrol with reports of "we launched a spread of 4 torps, 2 hit the hull of the enemy ship, zero detonations".

The lost value in un-sunk enemy shipping, the number of dead seaman that should have come back victorious, the number of subs that got sunk after an attack utterly failed, all were individually prices that dwarfed a single Mk14 torpedo, and together had a measurable impact on war performance.

All because the bureau of ordinance basically refused to hear any feedback.

Nearly every single component of the torpedo was unfit for service. The magnetic exploder didn't work. The contact detonator was nearly incapable of working because of the physics of torpedo impacts in a way that meant getting a perpendicular hit, which was considered optimal, actually was less likely to detonate. The depth keeping system was calibrated incorrectly, due to module integration mistakes, and ran 10 feet deeper than it was supposed to in some cases.

It's actually kind of common for US military procurement to produce a somewhat failed piece of equipment initially, but it usually gets modified and iterated on and improved to the point of being very respectable hardware in short order. The refusal of BuOrd to hear feedback is the real problem here. Their insane delays in fielding and responding to feedback cost real US lives. Once the torpedo was fixed up, the American sub fleet in the pacific ran roughshod over Japanese supply and utterly crippled their abilities to maintain control over the island chains.

The reason BuOrd gave for refusing to double check their work as these scathing reports came in? You see, the navy was struggling to produce enough torpedoes to meet requirements, so we can't waste a couple for testing. Instead, HUNDREDS of outright non-functioning torpedoes were sent to the bottom of the pacific, completely wasted, with almost no hope of actually working, because they were never tested.

The entire situation should be required reading for anyone in management, anywhere. Textbook case of penny smart, pound foolish.

Re: Torpedo juice: Legendary, illegal WWII liquor drunk in Alaska and the world

#64
post #29

When Ethanol started being used as car fuel in Brazil (in the 70's), there were not life-threatening additives on it, so of course some people would use it to mix with drinks. The practice only stopped in the late 80's when there was a supply crisis and Brazil had to import methanol and the TV started reporting cases of people going blind due to severe methanol poisoning.

Methanol is a biproduct of fermentation, and will be part of the destillate if not done carefully. I doubt that ethanol used in car and torpedo fuel will go through the same quality control than drinking alcohol.

Ethanol is an antidote for methanol. Methanol is a very poisonous by itself, but when mixed with ethanol, its consumption might end without long term consequences like blindness or death. The deadliness of their mix depends on a ratio, I believe that 50/50 is survivable.

So if you are not very picky when it comes to drinks, it doesn't really matter if your ethanol has 10% of methanol.

Re: Torpedo juice: Legendary, illegal WWII liquor drunk in Alaska and the world

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess: jet fuel is commonly kerosene, which if ingested (especially at somewhat palatable dilutions) will majorly fuck you up, but with effects that can somewhat mimic being drunk. That said, it's also going to fry your liver, kidneys, and pretty much anything else, but if you were already a conscript that spent 26 hours a day in a state somewhere between unconscious and drunk, a little kerosene nightcap might be…

I saw Russians depicted as drinking brake fluid in Beast of War and couldn't believe it. A few searches proved it true! Here's an excerpt from "Inside the Soviet Army in Afghanistan" by Alexander Alexiev (US Army document): You cannot imagine what they drink. They will drink shaving lotions and cologne. That's good stuff. Then they will drink toothpaste. The best one is the Bulgarian Pomorin brand. They will simply s…

There's a legendary Russian recipe for drinking brake fluid. I've seen claims that this goes as far back as WW2, with Soviet soldiers using their Mosin rifles to treat German brake fluid in this manner.

1. Be someplace very cold.

2. Find a steel crowbar or something similar (metal and long).

3. Stick it in a bucket.

4. Drip brake fluid onto the exposed end such that the liquid flows slowly along the surface into the bucket.

This supposedly filters out most of the chemicals as they freeze onto the cold metal surface, leaving the liquid in the bucket drinkable.

I would strongly advise against actually trying this for real, though.

Re: Torpedo juice: Legendary, illegal WWII liquor drunk in Alaska and the world

#67
There's a similar story about Soviet hard drives.

See, the early hard drives used in Soviet computers required a lot of manual maintenance, which included cleaning the heads with ethanol. They also topped out at ~5Mb.

In late 80s these were gradually replaced with imported Western hardware that offered more storage for less. In some places, the engineers in charge of servicing those things got creative and used such upgrades as an excuse to up their ethanol quota. After all, if a 5Mb HDD needs N ml of ethanol to service daily, it stands to reason that a 20Mb HDD needs N*4, right?

Re: Torpedo juice: Legendary, illegal WWII liquor drunk in Alaska and the world

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess: jet fuel is commonly kerosene, which if ingested (especially at somewhat palatable dilutions) will majorly fuck you up, but with effects that can somewhat mimic being drunk. That said, it's also going to fry your liver, kidneys, and pretty much anything else, but if you were already a conscript that spent 26 hours a day in a state somewhere between unconscious and drunk, a little kerosene nightcap might be…

I saw Russians depicted as drinking brake fluid in Beast of War and couldn't believe it. A few searches proved it true! Here's an excerpt from "Inside the Soviet Army in Afghanistan" by Alexander Alexiev (US Army document): You cannot imagine what they drink. They will drink shaving lotions and cologne. That's good stuff. Then they will drink toothpaste. The best one is the Bulgarian Pomorin brand. They will simply s…

One can't drink glue. You need to make a mixer head (drill and wire is OK) and collect the solid dissolved mass on it. The rest you can drink.

Re: Torpedo juice: Legendary, illegal WWII liquor drunk in Alaska and the world

#69
post #7

In France, around 1985, an old man said to me that just after WW2 he was, as a French soldier, working in Germany in some airfield or military site which was then used to host Allied soldiers of various nationalities. They had a problem with Soviet soldiers dying due to some poisonous/toxic substance they consumed. It lasted for days, maybe weeks. Nobody had a clue. Then they realized that some/many Soviet soldiers h…

Alcoholism in Russia, and most of the former USSR is just like, real bad. The sex ratio in Russia is something like 80 men : 100 women, and it's mostly due to alcohol.

Do women not drink? Or are men somehow more susceptible?

Re: Torpedo juice: Legendary, illegal WWII liquor drunk in Alaska and the world

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcoholism in Russia, and most of the former USSR is just like, real bad. The sex ratio in Russia is something like 80 men : 100 women, and it's mostly due to alcohol.

Do women not drink? Or are men somehow more susceptible?

> Do women not drink?

Kinda, sorta? The global data is roughly "the more patriarchal a society is, the less women drink".

> Or are men somehow more susceptible?

That's also possible, but it's hard to suss out of the data, because the cultural aspects are so large. In some countries, alcohol use is like an order of magnitude higher for men than women, and in others it's roughly equal.

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