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Ask HN: Quit stimulants, productivity suffering

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Re: Ask HN: Quit stimulants, productivity suffering

#31

Post by alphan0n »

swah wrote: post #29
alphan0n wrote: post #7

I stopped taking amphetamine stimulants for similar reasons and with a similar outcome. I ended up getting a prescription for Provigil (modafinil), a non-amphetamine stimulant. It’s not nearly as dopaminergic as amphetamine, decidedly non-euphoric, but more motivationally stimulating than caffeine. I found that the dose response lends itself well to former addicts, where taking the recommended dosage (100mg for me) d…

That did nothing for me - I kinda theorize it can't compete with my caffeine usage ie I would have to drop caffeine to restart at a baseline of sorts... (Or I just got powder..)

I’ve read numerous anecdotal accounts that espouse this. Not discounting yours at all, as the precise mechanism of action of modafinil is not well understood despite decades of human testing [0][1]. From my limited understanding, it increases histamine, the effect opposite of anti-histamines like diphenhydramine.

[0]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15991923/ [1]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22640618/

Anecdotally, despite being a very subtle effect, in my specific set of circumstances, modafinil has been life changing.

Re: Ask HN: Quit stimulants, productivity suffering

#32

Post by adastra22 »

ativzzz wrote: post #27
adastra22 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. OK. I have ADHD and I don't feel anything resembling a "high." If anything, I feel normal and relaxed on stimulants. But it also makes me able to focus and work hard, and I wouldn't have been able to accomplish what I have professionally or personally without it. Not just my job, but my marriage too was falling apart prior to getting on medication. What you wrote in the original post could have been writ…

> You may have a serious mental condition that needs treatment Maybe, but I wouldn't say serious. Just standard life malaise. I have talked to a psych - he gave me a concerta prescription after talking for 20 minutes lol. That's the stimulant I'm talking about. It's basically super coffee that lasts all day, and like I said, the high is by far the best part.

Malaise can be due to an underlying condition causing a biochemical imbalance. Stimulants are often prescribed as a first line defense for good reasons, but you can go back and let them know why it isn’t working.

Re: Ask HN: Quit stimulants, productivity suffering

#34

Post by adastra22 »

gperkins978 wrote: post #14
adastra22 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. OK. I have ADHD and I don't feel anything resembling a "high." If anything, I feel normal and relaxed on stimulants. But it also makes me able to focus and work hard, and I wouldn't have been able to accomplish what I have professionally or personally without it. Not just my job, but my marriage too was falling apart prior to getting on medication. What you wrote in the original post could have been writ…

I think the easiest distinction is the high part. I assume you have never crushed up Ritalin and/or Adderall to snort (I have). The guys taking it non-medicinally get a clear high, and tolerance demands higher doses. The best/worst one is desoxyn. That stuff is heavenly, but so addictive. After scoring a bottle of it I decided that I was never going to take any amphetamine ever again. From what I understand, ADHD fol…

I don’t think there is any chemical dependency difference. I could quit stimulants if I want to (and I have, unintentionally during the shortage when I was forced to go without). But why would I want to? I’m addicted to not being a total failure in life.

But I am very curious about how people like you describe the effect of these drugs, as it is so foreign to me. What do you even mean by “heavenly”?

Some people can retreat to a mind palace in their head. I have a mind bouncy castle. It’s like confetti in a wind tunnel. Stimulants calm the storm and give me control over my inner thoughts, and mastering oneself is the first step to having any agency in the world. That’s all they are to me.

But a “high”? Never experienced that, other than the psychological high that comes with being high agency.

Re: Ask HN: Quit stimulants, productivity suffering

#35

Post by uncomplexity_ »

you just gotta rawdog it and learn how to function without it.

you're chasing two rabbits here: a short-term one and a long-term one.

you're smart enough to know which of those two matters more.

you're smart enough to know all those energy and focus you had is just borrowed time.

you're smart enough to know you've been digging yourself in a hole of massive withdrawal which can take weeks and months.

you're smart enough to know that substituting it with other uppers like caffeine, nicotine, will still keep you dependent.

just rawdog it cold turkey, exercise consistently, get rid of junk food, eat meats and veggies, hydrate properly, and rest enough.

just suck it up and etch in your head that getting yourself back kn track takes time and there will be no immediate results.

sculpting art from a block of marble takes time, it will be days and weeks of you doing the same damn thing even if you dont enjoy it, even if you dont feel good about it, even if you dont see your desired outcomes yet.

Re: Ask HN: Quit stimulants, productivity suffering

#36

Post by uncomplexity_ »

adastra22 wrote: post #10
ativzzz wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have ADHD - stimulants make me a lot more productive until tolerance kicks in. It's easier to focus on boring tasks, and I'm high so work that normally isn't fun becomes fun. Once the tolerance kicks in (1-2 weeks of use) the high becomes mild / nonexistant and it no longer boosts my productivity

Interesting. OK. I have ADHD and I don't feel anything resembling a "high." If anything, I feel normal and relaxed on stimulants. But it also makes me able to focus and work hard, and I wouldn't have been able to accomplish what I have professionally or personally without it. Not just my job, but my marriage too was falling apart prior to getting on medication. What you wrote in the original post could have been writ…

adhd is real (i got adhd-pi myself) but its wild to suggest these things without asking the person:

- if he's exercising consistently

- if he's eating properly without junk food

- if he's hydrating properly instead of other beverages

- if his overall physical activity has a good baseline

- if he's in a line of work where his interest, competence, and the challenge of the work is a good match.

most people's inability to focus comes down to lack of self-discipline and self-care, or just being in a wrong place, wrong time, or wrong environment.

Re: Ask HN: Quit stimulants, productivity suffering

#37

Post by mickelsen »

I hate that at times, it feels I'm postponing the same outcome.

I was able to come back to 30mg Vyvanse daily, 50mg made me super impatient, fight with my gf and just be short-tempered with everyone, plus the productivity window was always reducing after some time.

But even at 30mg, it's just not the same effect as 14 years ago of course, and taking breaks can only do so much. Now 30mg feels like enough just for getting out of bed and doing a normal day.

Low dose (25mg) sertraline for a few months fixed the temper thing. Good sleep is a must. Still finding a way to take it easy and reduce the stimulant further, I'm still able to engage on technical things deeply that interest me and live my life fine, but I'm not cut out for the stress of a more senior position, not unless I start to make compromises, so that's not the avenue I'm pursuing at least.

I do have ADHD, diagnosed as a kid and the pattern worsened in college until I started treatment, if that matters.

Re: Ask HN: Quit stimulants, productivity suffering

#38

Post by jbjbjbjb »

ativzzz wrote: post #6
adastra22 wrote: post #4

Do you have ADHD? Maybe you should be using stimulants…

I don't have ADHD - stimulants make me a lot more productive until tolerance kicks in. It's easier to focus on boring tasks, and I'm high so work that normally isn't fun becomes fun. Once the tolerance kicks in (1-2 weeks of use) the high becomes mild / nonexistant and it no longer boosts my productivity

For my most boring tasks what I do is I write my to do list and break the work down into a stupid level of detail including all the practical steps too.

Like: open word document, review section 1, save document, email link to x.

This makes getting started easy enough and hopefully I pick up momentum and engagement as I go.

Re: Ask HN: Quit stimulants, productivity suffering

#40

Post by ipaddr »

alphan0n wrote: post #31
swah wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That did nothing for me - I kinda theorize it can't compete with my caffeine usage ie I would have to drop caffeine to restart at a baseline of sorts... (Or I just got powder..)

I’ve read numerous anecdotal accounts that espouse this. Not discounting yours at all, as the precise mechanism of action of modafinil is not well understood despite decades of human testing [0][1]. From my limited understanding, it increases histamine, the effect opposite of anti-histamines like diphenhydramine. [0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15991923/ [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22640618/ Anecdotally,…

If all it is doing is adding histamine could you get it from food?
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