Live data from Hacker News

GitHub Copilot is now available for free

github.com

271–280 of 412 posts

Re: GitHub Copilot is now available for free

#271

The real cost is that society at large is no longer contributing to the StackOverflow, so problems and solutions are all now stored in proprietary databases (which granted SO also was) but also now stored in an invisible proprietary database

Stack Overflow is now a proprietary database too. Given the choice between that, and a proprietary robot offering 10x as much clarity and quality, I'd choose the robot. Not all LLMs are proprietary in the same way as Claude. Many LLMs have their weights publicly available, like Gemma. But I can understand if you feel like a floating point numbers file is de facto proprietary tool. But if you're smart, you would look at this instead as an opportunity to invent the tools that will make this knowledge accessible. I've been working with Mozilla to build a "fantasy mode" feature for Firefox, which works similar to incognito mode, where you have a local LLM generate a synthetic version of the world wide web on the fly. This gives you the ability to explore the knowledge contained in LLM weights using an intuitive familiar browser-based interface. So far it's about as fast as 56k dialup was in the 1990s but as microprocessors become faster, I believe we'll be able to generate artificial realities of useful information we can't live without which are superior to Stack Overflow today.

Re: GitHub Copilot is now available for free

#272

The real cost is that society at large is no longer contributing to the StackOverflow, so problems and solutions are all now stored in proprietary databases (which granted SO also was) but also now stored in an invisible proprietary database

The situation at large is even worse if you consider how Discord moved a significant portion of discussion away from the indexable Web.

I thought of mailing lists as archaic, but maybe we just regressed from there.

Re: GitHub Copilot is now available for free

#273

The real cost is that society at large is no longer contributing to the StackOverflow, so problems and solutions are all now stored in proprietary databases (which granted SO also was) but also now stored in an invisible proprietary database

I think you'd find society-at- small was contributing , with perhaps 10x larger yet still quite small number posting but watering down useful contributions, 100x that lurking, and 1000x that just drive-by copy-pasting from SO to their IDE.

There's a rule of tens online: for every comment, there are ten interactions (like an upvote/down ote), and for every interaction, there are 10 views.

So, every comment on a post roughly equals 100 views.

Re: GitHub Copilot is now available for free

#274
post #271

The real cost is that society at large is no longer contributing to the StackOverflow, so problems and solutions are all now stored in proprietary databases (which granted SO also was) but also now stored in an invisible proprietary database

Stack Overflow is now a proprietary database too. Given the choice between that, and a proprietary robot offering 10x as much clarity and quality, I'd choose the robot. Not all LLMs are proprietary in the same way as Claude. Many LLMs have their weights publicly available, like Gemma. But I can understand if you feel like a floating point numbers file is de facto proprietary tool. But if you're smart, you would look…

Forgive me if I have missed something, but how is a synthetic version of the web (which sounds interesting and impressive in its own right) in any way comparable to a vast, indexed repository of curated and organized technical knowledge shared by experts with nuanced experiences and insights?

> but as microprocessors become faster, I believe we'll be able to generate artificial realities of useful information we can't live without which are superior to Stack Overflow today.

Was this written by an LLM bot? It seems…off.

Re: GitHub Copilot is now available for free

#275
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The StackOverflow database was open source for a while, but I haven't checked for a data dump since the new management came in.

True, may not be open source, but it is still viewable. Best for Society: Open Source Medium for Society: Proprietary, but openly browsable Worst for Society: Proprietary, not browsable <-- LLM-based code assist tools

...where would you classify Llama in here? That's not really "open source" despite what Facebook calls it, but I wouldn't call it proprietary, anyone can download and use the whole thing locally.

Re: GitHub Copilot is now available for free

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you'd find society-at- small was contributing , with perhaps 10x larger yet still quite small number posting but watering down useful contributions, 100x that lurking, and 1000x that just drive-by copy-pasting from SO to their IDE.

There's a rule of tens online: for every comment, there are ten interactions (like an upvote/down ote), and for every interaction, there are 10 views. So, every comment on a post roughly equals 100 views.

I learned this as a real estate salesperson, some 20-years ago: Take 10 calls to get a meeting. Take 10 meetings to get a contract. Sign 10 contracts to complete a sale. So a thousand calls and a hundred contracts for 10 sales. I didn’t last long, the only other people there who were successfully selling land were also heavy cocaine users, that’s a mark of how grind-y the job was.

Re: GitHub Copilot is now available for free

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, may not be open source, but it is still viewable. Best for Society: Open Source Medium for Society: Proprietary, but openly browsable Worst for Society: Proprietary, not browsable <-- LLM-based code assist tools

...where would you classify Llama in here? That's not really "open source" despite what Facebook calls it, but I wouldn't call it proprietary, anyone can download and use the whole thing locally.

"public weights"?

Re: GitHub Copilot is now available for free

#278
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The StackOverflow database was open source for a while, but I haven't checked for a data dump since the new management came in.

True, may not be open source, but it is still viewable. Best for Society: Open Source Medium for Society: Proprietary, but openly browsable Worst for Society: Proprietary, not browsable <-- LLM-based code assist tools

This is just like the majority of communities moving to Discord over Forums. The barrier to entry might be a lot lower than getting a VPS and hosting phpBB or whatever, but the discoverability and searchabilty has gone towards 0. Everything is just moving into opaque black boxes.

Re: GitHub Copilot is now available for free

#279
post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...where would you classify Llama in here? That's not really "open source" despite what Facebook calls it, but I wouldn't call it proprietary, anyone can download and use the whole thing locally.

"public weights"?

Can those weights be interpreted by anyone viewing them? If not, it seems like publicly available, obfuscated code at best.

Re: GitHub Copilot is now available for free

#280

The real cost is that society at large is no longer contributing to the StackOverflow, so problems and solutions are all now stored in proprietary databases (which granted SO also was) but also now stored in an invisible proprietary database

So the real solution is tracking all of your data.

There should be a product, something that you install to capture your own data, and then pseudo-anonymize it and sell it back to databurgers (I meant to write data brokers but I kept this misspelling for lolz).

Is there?

Assistant LLMs like Limitless.AI merged with their older desktop scraper app could be repackaged to do that...

New industry? Or old?

Post reply on HN