DIY B&B • Hacker News Board

Re: DIY B&B

#171

Post by tptacek » Sat, Jul 14, 2012, 1:08 AM UTC

graeme wrote: post #168

tptacek wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Hilton, Hyatt, Wyndham or Marriott give a shit about Airbnb; they do a full Airbnb valuation of real revenue every other quarter, and the market they service isn't "random places to stay", it's "hotel rooms". The preponderance of evidence available to message board nerds like us suggests strongly to me that enforcement of these laws is being driven by real complaints.

Airbnb is a future threat to the hotel industry. I'm sure they recognize that. Most people are potential "hotels". This will keep rates low AND attract new entrants (because some money is better than no money). Airbnb rooms are usually more pleasant than the lower quality hotels a lot of businesses book. Once it becomes socially normal in larger corporations, a lot of employees will ask to be booked with airbnb.

Everything you say here is obvious; you are making the obvious case that the big bad hotel industry is conspiring to shut down Airbnb. Anyone on HN would, if asked to advocate the position that hotels were conspiring against Airbnb, make exactly the same case.

I'm saying: I doubt that's what's happening. I've heard too many anecdotal stories about complaints, and am too capable of looking at (a) revenue numbers for hotels and (b) stats on how people book hotel rooms to think that anyone at Marriott is really being kept up at night about this.

At some point, Airbnb will be too big and disruptive for the major chains to ignore. But now? I doubt it. I think cities are reacting to complaints.

Re: DIY B&B

#172

Post by flatline3 » Sat, Jul 14, 2012, 1:27 AM UTC

kirillzubovsky wrote: post #101

cletus wrote: post #26

I guess I shouldn't be surprised at the negative reaction to this here. The HN demographic is presumably tilted towards young men. What those criticisms seem to be neglecting is that those--particularly for apartment buildings--these temporary visitors impact beyond just you. In Australia, for example, one useful metric used by people when assessing apartment buildings to buy in is to look at the ratio of owner-occup…

Before you suggest that short-term rentals through AirBnB impact your living standards, you should try to rent your own place on AirBnB, as well as go travel and stay at AirBnB locations. You'd be pleasantly surprised that most visitors are decent human beings and don't have a mission to destroy someone's property. At least, this has been my experience with AirBnB. Saying that "one person complained, once .." is just…

Your position is painfully naive. A bad neighbor is a part of the community, and has to engage with that community. There are HOA rules, local laws, and social constructs that keep neighborly relations largely above board. We select neighborhoods based on the community.

Transient tenants are not part of the community. They are not answerable to the community. Invariably a great deal of them will be poor members of the community, especially in an apartment building, and especially given that they're on vacation (and the rest of us aren't): late nights, smoking, drunken antics, or in the case of our building -- lighting the roof deck on fire by dropping smoldering cigarettes on flammable material.

> Unless you never travel anywhere beyond your backyard or you just love to give up all your money to the hotel owners, you should be jumping up and down and cheering for AirBnB and for short-term guests in your area.

People pay for hotels because they provide deterministic quality. I know that when I show up, the room will be clean, ready, and of a certain level of quality. It's less for me to worry about; worrying about the accommodations is not something I want to spend time on.

For some people, that determinism is not worth the money, or is not even something they're looking for. AirBNB offers an option for those people, but at significant cost to the surrounding community and commons.

Re: DIY B&B

#173

Post by hell0_th3r3 » Sat, Jul 14, 2012, 1:29 AM UTC

rprasad wrote: post #98

hell0_th3r3 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they don't "own" the property and the word "owner" does not appear on anyone's deed (don't believe me? go read your own) you are a tenant on the land, and your deed says this. the county is the owner.

I think you need to reread your deed, or move off of Section 8 housing. My deed explicitly states that I am the owner of my condo, as well as a % of the building and land on which the condo resides.

you have a condo agreement., not a deed. your condo building owner has a deed. ask a lawyer

Re: DIY B&B

#174

Post by huhtenberg » Sat, Jul 14, 2012, 1:31 AM UTC

smokeyj wrote: post #170

huhtenberg wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Property can be damaged, but it can also be insured. You are missing the point. I don't want common property in my condo building to be damaged, period. It just spoils my day.

That's a private matter that should be determined by your contract. Can't tell if joking..

I am not.

The GP said that having too many renters increases the risk of property damage (which is very true), to which you replied (essentially) - why worry, let them damage, the insurance will pick the tab - to which I said that it's the actual damage, not the cost of repairs that is an issue.

Re: DIY B&B

#175

Post by hell0_th3r3 » Sat, Jul 14, 2012, 1:32 AM UTC

rprasad wrote: post #138

DannoHung wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you bought a co-op, not a condo.

Condo = unit owners own fractional interests in the shared areas (including the building and land). Co-op = the cooperative owns the shared areas; the members own shares in the coooperative entity. Both = the entity (HOA/cooperative) pays for the maintenance/other costs of the shared areas. Co-ops collect the money for these expenses through monthly dues and yearly assessments. I do not know how co-ops collect for th…

you have no land rights. ask a lawyer

Re: DIY B&B

#176

Post by flatline3 » Sat, Jul 14, 2012, 1:32 AM UTC

graeme wrote: post #168

tptacek wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Hilton, Hyatt, Wyndham or Marriott give a shit about Airbnb; they do a full Airbnb valuation of real revenue every other quarter, and the market they service isn't "random places to stay", it's "hotel rooms". The preponderance of evidence available to message board nerds like us suggests strongly to me that enforcement of these laws is being driven by real complaints.

Airbnb is a future threat to the hotel industry. I'm sure they recognize that. Most people are potential "hotels". This will keep rates low AND attract new entrants (because some money is better than no money). Airbnb rooms are usually more pleasant than the lower quality hotels a lot of businesses book. Once it becomes socially normal in larger corporations, a lot of employees will ask to be booked with airbnb.

> Airbnb rooms are usually more pleasant than the lower quality hotels a lot of businesses book.

I suggest you browse areas with high AirBNB usage. In NYC, a nice AirBNB will cost roughly the same as the equivalent hotel room.

> Once it becomes socially normal in larger corporations, a lot of employees will ask to be booked with airbnb.

This is unlikely. The only reason to choose AirBNB is price, and the low price options in popular destinations are rarely particularly nice.

As a corporation, we're willing to spend the money necessary to be guaranteed determinism. Nobody in the travel department would want to deal with rebooking an employee if their AirBNB experience turned out to be poor.

I can book an employee a room at The Intercontinental and I know that there will be no issues, and we can worry about things that actually matter, like getting work done.

Re: DIY B&B

#177

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jul 14, 2012, 1:33 AM UTC

graeme wrote: post #168

tptacek wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Hilton, Hyatt, Wyndham or Marriott give a shit about Airbnb; they do a full Airbnb valuation of real revenue every other quarter, and the market they service isn't "random places to stay", it's "hotel rooms". The preponderance of evidence available to message board nerds like us suggests strongly to me that enforcement of these laws is being driven by real complaints.

Airbnb is a future threat to the hotel industry. I'm sure they recognize that. Most people are potential "hotels". This will keep rates low AND attract new entrants (because some money is better than no money). Airbnb rooms are usually more pleasant than the lower quality hotels a lot of businesses book. Once it becomes socially normal in larger corporations, a lot of employees will ask to be booked with airbnb.

[deleted]

Re: DIY B&B

#178

Post by slug » Sat, Jul 14, 2012, 1:35 AM UTC

kirillzubovsky wrote: post #101

cletus wrote: post #26

I guess I shouldn't be surprised at the negative reaction to this here. The HN demographic is presumably tilted towards young men. What those criticisms seem to be neglecting is that those--particularly for apartment buildings--these temporary visitors impact beyond just you. In Australia, for example, one useful metric used by people when assessing apartment buildings to buy in is to look at the ratio of owner-occup…

Before you suggest that short-term rentals through AirBnB impact your living standards, you should try to rent your own place on AirBnB, as well as go travel and stay at AirBnB locations. You'd be pleasantly surprised that most visitors are decent human beings and don't have a mission to destroy someone's property. At least, this has been my experience with AirBnB. Saying that "one person complained, once .." is just…

Well, I used AirBnB in the past and have only good things to say about it, until I tried to find a short-term (month) stay in a big US city. I noticed that more and more people are using AirBnB to advertise their more expensive daily/weekly stays instead of posting to craigslist with a monthly stay. So the middle ground (monthly) is also being disrupted, not sure if I'm happy about it now :)

Re: DIY B&B

#179

Post by tptacek » Sat, Jul 14, 2012, 1:39 AM UTC

flatline3 wrote: post #176

graeme wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airbnb is a future threat to the hotel industry. I'm sure they recognize that. Most people are potential "hotels". This will keep rates low AND attract new entrants (because some money is better than no money). Airbnb rooms are usually more pleasant than the lower quality hotels a lot of businesses book. Once it becomes socially normal in larger corporations, a lot of employees will ask to be booked with airbnb.

> Airbnb rooms are usually more pleasant than the lower quality hotels a lot of businesses book. I suggest you browse areas with high AirBNB usage. In NYC, a nice AirBNB will cost roughly the same as the equivalent hotel room. > Once it becomes socially normal in larger corporations, a lot of employees will ask to be booked with airbnb. This is unlikely. The only reason to choose AirBNB is price, and the low price op…

What you say about Airbnb vs. hotel costs in NYC is wildly not my experience. At the high end, the rooms available on Airbnb simply aren't available in hotels at all; I'd wager, if you did your best at apples-apples, Airbnb is roughly half as expensive as a hotel room.

The nondeterminism thing with Abnb is a good point. I've always figured that if something fell through, I'd just book a same-night hotel, but it was a concern.

Re: DIY B&B

#180

Post by tptacek » Sat, Jul 14, 2012, 1:41 AM UTC

ericabiz wrote: post #145

tptacek wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Municipalities aren't making this unlawful. Running unregulated unlicensed undocumented hotels has been illegal for decades. What you're asking is for people to engage in activism to overturn statutes and codes that every major city already has on the books. What statutes and codes do you propose to replace them with?

That is not what the article said. Here is the direct quote: "In 2010 New York passed a law requiring a minimum thirty-day stay for any rental in a residential building—in effect making shorter-term rentals, the bulk of the market, illegal."

I did read the article. What I read from your comment was, you feel like regulations covering lodging are a new thing, and moreover that cities don't need regulated lodging.

Am I mistaken about either of those points?