School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study • Hacker News Board

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#361

Post by walthamstow » Sun, Dec 15, 2024, 12:13 PM UTC

graemep wrote: post #332

arrowsmith wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was the policy at my school ~20 years ago. “Smartphones” didn’t exist, but mobile phones were ubiquitous and every kid owned one. But they weren’t allowed in the classroom, and if you were found to have one in the classroom (even if it was switched off in your pocket), it would immediately be confiscated and you wouldn’t get it back until at least the next day. Why would any school not have this policy? What pos…

Confiscation until the next day could cause all sorts of problems. For example my daughter needs a smartphone app for bus tickets. It would be a lot more expensive to buy a single ticket to get home and I suppose (especially with younger kids) its going to be difficult to ensure they have the money to get home - or the phone might be their main means of payment. People are dependent on smartphones to live day to day,…

> Confiscation until the next day could cause all sorts of problems.

Don't use your phone in class and it won't get confiscated. What's the problem?

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#362

Post by h4ch1 » Sun, Dec 15, 2024, 12:13 PM UTC

graemep wrote: post #326

h4ch1 wrote: post #297

Seeing almost feral iPad kids has put me off giving my children a portable screen, especially one with unrestricted access to the internet. The surprising part is I grew up around computers and the internet (got my first email when i was 4) and have always had a desktop PC around, but somehow gravitated towards building websites, small C games, and even though YouTube, Metacafe, Facebook, Miniclip were easily accessi…

> Maybe it's the way games and apps are designed these days and attempt to hijack your attention Very much this. I think a social media ban would have most of the benefits of a mobile phone ban. While you mention FB, you do not say when, and I do not think it was always as addictive. The other problem with phones is that thy are very much consumption devices. You are not going to build websites, let along games, on o…

> While you mention FB, you do not say when, and I do not think it was always as addictive.

You're correct, I haven't logged into my account since 2018, but I am talking about the period from 2007-2013, now I am assuming since Meta has Facebook & Instagram & Whatsapp the UX would be more or less the same across platforms like stories/reels or some form of infinite looped community engagement.

> Unless its a really toxic environment, its not a big issue.

I think bullying exists everywhere, it ranges from being explicit, like everybody knows what is going on to very implicit bullying which involves people being iced out from social circles slowly but surely, but I agree with your point, I'll do my best to equip my children with tools to navigate such scenarios, since they exist in adulthood as well. Also these experiences are imo essential for character development ie; being sure about who you are and where you come from without being swept up in the beliefs of your peer group.

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#363

Post by rob_c » Sun, Dec 15, 2024, 12:13 PM UTC

graemep wrote: post #332

arrowsmith wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was the policy at my school ~20 years ago. “Smartphones” didn’t exist, but mobile phones were ubiquitous and every kid owned one. But they weren’t allowed in the classroom, and if you were found to have one in the classroom (even if it was switched off in your pocket), it would immediately be confiscated and you wouldn’t get it back until at least the next day. Why would any school not have this policy? What pos…

Confiscation until the next day could cause all sorts of problems. For example my daughter needs a smartphone app for bus tickets. It would be a lot more expensive to buy a single ticket to get home and I suppose (especially with younger kids) its going to be difficult to ensure they have the money to get home - or the phone might be their main means of payment. People are dependent on smartphones to live day to day,…

I'm sorry but my honest response to that is something is failing there, either education or parent but you're both using the child as an excuse.

Having to walk home or wait to get picked up from school to be punished isn't crazy its called consequences which children need to be taught.

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#364

Post by supersrdjan » Sun, Dec 15, 2024, 12:16 PM UTC

Do you ever get periods of time where you're just not interested in your phone? Periods of time when you don't even feel the compulsion to unlock your phone and scroll, so there's no real willpower required to abstain from it?

That's the state of mind I want to be at. I don't want to have to lock away the phone from myself or unplug my router.

I do get those streaks of no doom scrolling from time to time, perhaps for a few weeks at a time, but, for now, I keep reverting back to my old compulsions. But I will keep working on it :)

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#365

Post by sicariusnoctis » Sun, Dec 15, 2024, 12:16 PM UTC

card_zero wrote: post #201

it_citizen wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hypothesize then experiment

Uh-huh. You have a conjecture, you test it, and then you say "looks like reality didn't match our conjecture, the conjecture must be wrong." Except here they got a negative result and said "reality must be wrong". It's a determined effort to find specific results.

They didn't say "reality must be wrong". They said that their initial hypothesis (that significant changes would be observed after 21 days) is probably wrong, so they implicitly proposed a second hypothesis (that significant changes occur after e.g. a few months).

None of this is remotely contemptible.

Pretend you're an immortal alien conducting a study with the hypothesis, "humans are mortal". You observe that your subjects do not die after 21 days. Do you conclude that humans are immortal? (I hope not. It's much better to conclude that humans don't usually die after 21 days in this particular instance of extraterrestrial captivity.)

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#366

Post by Xelbair » Sun, Dec 15, 2024, 12:16 PM UTC

lugu wrote: post #347

card_zero wrote: post #177

> Interestingly, the research didn’t show significant improvements in cognitive ability; the phone ban group showed a modest 3% boost in working memory, and there were no improvements in sustained attention. Researchers suggest that these results might mean that changes in cognitive ability could take longer than the study period of 21 days to materialise. Notice how they had decided beforehand what they were going t…

What is wrong with that? Isn't it how science works: you make an hypothesis and test it.

but you conform to the experimental results.

you can suggest further experimentation to prove another point, but this is different from assuming a priori that effect WILL happen. The issue is not in the idea itself, but how it is phrased.

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#367

Post by DamonHD » Sun, Dec 15, 2024, 12:17 PM UTC

mattlondon wrote: post #197

WWLink wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, ok? What's the big deal? So you have to drive slowly and carefully and wait for people who are walking and might not be paying the best of attention? I can see how that may be annoying but how many seconds/minutes does it add to your commute such that you would be so bothered about it? Edit: And to clarify, I believe your post is incredibly tame and politely written. I've seen people get super furious over th…

An A road is typically a high-speed high-throughput road. Stopping to wait for someone to slowly cross can be dangerous. So you are stationary there and then some comes around the bend at 60mph not expecting a stopped car and wham. Not saying cars should have priority, but there you go

Just maybe no one should be regarding coming round a blind corner at 60mph as any more sensible than crossing the road without looking ... especially given that the motorist is a lethal danger to others...

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#368

Post by alkonaut » Sun, Dec 15, 2024, 12:17 PM UTC

flexie wrote: post #338

card_zero wrote: post #177

> Interestingly, the research didn’t show significant improvements in cognitive ability; the phone ban group showed a modest 3% boost in working memory, and there were no improvements in sustained attention. Researchers suggest that these results might mean that changes in cognitive ability could take longer than the study period of 21 days to materialise. Notice how they had decided beforehand what they were going t…

By now, most schools in Denmark are banning phones during school hours. My kids' school did it two years ago. I have no idea if it has improved my kids' "cognitive skills", and frankly I don't care that much about their academic level. They are kids. They should run around, play and be happy, and then they will learn what they need. As a parent it's wonderful to know that the kids have this 5-7 hour break from the sc…

Someone realized it's not a good idea to hand a bunch of teens cameras, give them unlimited possibility to bully eachother anonymously and then force them to share a space for 8 hours every day, including changing clothes and showering for gym class. In hindsight it seems obvious.

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#369

Post by bilbo0s » Sun, Dec 15, 2024, 12:17 PM UTC

lugu wrote: post #347

card_zero wrote: post #177

> Interestingly, the research didn’t show significant improvements in cognitive ability; the phone ban group showed a modest 3% boost in working memory, and there were no improvements in sustained attention. Researchers suggest that these results might mean that changes in cognitive ability could take longer than the study period of 21 days to materialise. Notice how they had decided beforehand what they were going t…

What is wrong with that? Isn't it how science works: you make an hypothesis and test it.

I think so many people, even most here on HN, have forgotten how the scientific method works.

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#370

Post by bilbo0s » Sun, Dec 15, 2024, 12:23 PM UTC

Xelbair wrote: post #366

lugu wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is wrong with that? Isn't it how science works: you make an hypothesis and test it.

but you conform to the experimental results. you can suggest further experimentation to prove another point, but this is different from assuming a priori that effect WILL happen. The issue is not in the idea itself, but how it is phrased.

They did suggest a new experiment, one lasting longer than 21 days to test their hypothesis.

Hypothesis -> proposed experiment -> results -> questions evoked by results -> new hypothesis -> new proposed experiment

MOST importantly, they didn’t fake any results and went where the data took them. This is the kind of science that has been falling out of fashion for the last few decades in favor of researchers who work based on other principles.