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DIY B&B

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Re: DIY B&B

#61

Post by larrys »

cletus wrote: post #26

I guess I shouldn't be surprised at the negative reaction to this here. The HN demographic is presumably tilted towards young men. What those criticisms seem to be neglecting is that those--particularly for apartment buildings--these temporary visitors impact beyond just you. In Australia, for example, one useful metric used by people when assessing apartment buildings to buy in is to look at the ratio of owner-occup…

"Generally the more owner-occupiers, the better the building."

Same from my experience on the east coast. I will assume that's universal.

"Renters don't tend to look after properties, tend to be less mindful of behaviour that impacts the neighbours (parties, etc), etc."

Once again true from my experience. And here we aren't even talking about longer term rentals. We are talking about days and the fact that you could literally have 50 to 200 different occupants per year greatly increasing the chance statistically that there would be some people who might cause problems.

"you are raising the risk of damage or theft to the property of others by bringing a stream of strangers into your home."

Iirc, while the Fred Wilson emails with PG regarding airbnb didn't reveal this I feel that this fear of strangers and what they can do played into his thinking as far as not wanting to invest in airbnb. It was my gut immediate reaction.

Edit: http://blogs.wsj.com/venturecapital/2011/03/17/fred-wilson-o...

Re: DIY B&B

#62

Post by majormajor »

nostromo wrote: post #41
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #11

Just about every year for as long as I can remember, my family has taken a summer vacation at a beach about 300 miles away. We always stay in a hotel. Over time, the beach has gotten tacky. Big billboards. Lots of nightlife. Amusement park rides. All kinds of things that reek of Las Vegas, but not so much a relaxing family vacation. So this year we decided to try something different. I got onto VRBO online and picked…

> Vested interests can fight as much as they want, but this is a done deal I think this is absolutely the case. Right now we're seeing what happened in the early days of Napster. The RIAA and governments were shocked shocked at the widespread disregard for the law. Now a decade or so later it's common and widely accepted that breaking copyright is just something that happens. Airbnb & Homeaway/VRBO & Craigslist are c…

I expect the endgame to be similar. In some number of years, there will be "legitimate" ways of doing this, that let the governments take taxes easily and provide some sort of baseline regulation/dispute-settling/insurance, like how the Napsters and Kazaas paved the way and eventually led to services that work more inside the system instead of usurping the system. The under-the-table versions will never go away entirely, but if you can give me a basically hassle-free way of doing the same thing in a sanctioned manner (were I looking to rent out some space of my own, I'd greatly prefer a service that took care of the insurance, liability, and legality issues for me), I'm going to choose that. The question I'd love to know the answer to is just how much AirBNB plans on working with governments and insurers.

Re: DIY B&B

#63

Post by hell0_th3r3 »

dmk23 wrote: post #12

This is a classic example of anti-competitive market fixing, masquerading as a "regulation to protect consumers" or somesuch. There is no legitimate justification to infringe on a contract between a willing buyer and a willing seller, but to actually fight these crackdowns you have to spend lots of $$$ on local political campaigns in every municipality. Easier said than done. Unless that massive lobbying investment (…

There is no legitimate justification to infringe on a contract between a willing buyer and a willing seller

this was a common refrain of slave holders - it was a pure market mechanism, the buyer and seller agreed on a price, why does the govt care?

Re: DIY B&B

#64

Post by blaines »

mhurron wrote: post #49
cletus wrote: post #26

I guess I shouldn't be surprised at the negative reaction to this here. The HN demographic is presumably tilted towards young men. What those criticisms seem to be neglecting is that those--particularly for apartment buildings--these temporary visitors impact beyond just you. In Australia, for example, one useful metric used by people when assessing apartment buildings to buy in is to look at the ratio of owner-occup…

> Would people feel the same way if someone was operating a brothel in their house or apartment? After all, it's their property and they can do with it as they please right? What about operating a bar or a club? That's the way you're going to go with it? Why don't you try it. You'll find that those issues are actually already handled by local laws in most places.

Exactly, there's laws in place that already prohibit running a business out of a home. Specific business types and activities apply, for instance, you cannot start a farm unless it has been zoned accordingly. In addition some cities have limits on what type, and how many animals you keep on premises. On the contrary, it is typically acceptable to have a garden and sell your crop or have a chicken and sell it's eggs (say, at a farmers market).

Re: DIY B&B

#65

Post by vaksel »

scarmig wrote: post #16
blaines wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to take my couch offline because my HOA threatened to fine me. No more visitors, no more foreign friends. :( It seems the first wave of enforcement has come from HOAs, I've heard of various people having to remove their listing for that reason. [1] Now it appears, according to the article above, municipal authorities are pushing back. Could this be a result of lobbying from hotels? Vacation rentals is not a new…

Well, municipalities have had similar rules for awhile, though more often to be used as a stick against people engaging in arguably socially harmful behavior. And at least in the case of HOA, more often than not a contract was signed in the beginning that explicitly forbids that type of arrangement. Which sucks, but it is the free market. Just goes to show that contract rights aren't enough to ensure freedom.

if you actually read all the rules of the municipality...every single person in town is guilty of something. It's just a way to enforce rules without looking authoritative.

We aren't telling you that you can't do X...but Article 294-984b, section 49a states that doing X is a $50,000 fine.

Re: DIY B&B

#66

Post by barmstrong »

cletus wrote: post #26

I guess I shouldn't be surprised at the negative reaction to this here. The HN demographic is presumably tilted towards young men. What those criticisms seem to be neglecting is that those--particularly for apartment buildings--these temporary visitors impact beyond just you. In Australia, for example, one useful metric used by people when assessing apartment buildings to buy in is to look at the ratio of owner-occup…

You're right that short term renters change the value of a property, but you still have all your work ahead of you to show why it should actually be illegal (having the police come raid people).

What you described is handled quite well by regular contracts between tenants/landlords. If a tenant signs a lease where short term rentals aren't allowed and violates it then they can be evicted, lose their deposit, etc. Similarly, landlords who don't allow it could face slightly lower rents by losing tenants who want more flexibility. In other words, it reaches a balance as people negotiate contracts.

There is a big difference between violating a lease and making something illegal.

Re: DIY B&B

#67

Post by cciesquare »

For my friend's wedding, we stayed at such a place. I had a long conversation with the owner, who lived in a side room. It looked like an extension he built on the house.

He told me he was running into issues with the city. Not from hotels or what not, but complaints from neighbors. They did not like the fact that strangers were constantly going in and out. BUT he said that he had heard hotels and motels were not happy about the popularity, especially from other short-term vacation home owners.

It's going to be a two front battle, one side from big business, and the other from neighbors. In the end my guess is that the city will license it, and heavily tax it, in other words the cities win.

Re: DIY B&B

#68

Post by rprasad »

derleth wrote: post #43
sliverstorm wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... telling me who I can or can not have over to stay. They aren't telling you who you can or can not have over, they are prohibiting you from having temporary guests that pay. Why? Well, an establishment that houses temporary guests traditionally has to answer to health & safety codes and regulations. Under-the-radar AirBnB rentals circumvent that system. You'd probably get similar kickback if you tried running an i…

> They aren't telling you who you can or can not have over, they are prohibiting you from having temporary guests that pay. Right. Now try to get the average person to care about the distinction.

Guest stays free = okay. Guest pays you = not okay.

The average person can understand that. In fact, most people do. The "benefits" of AirBNB are usually lost on the average person, who cannot understand why someone would rent out their house directly to total strangers.

Re: DIY B&B

#69

Post by luismmontielg »

Im getting

OperationalError at /v1/complete/google-oauth2/ FATAL: too many connections for role "ruwdncbzdkulsh"

Request Method: GET Request URL: http://api.collections.me/v1/complete/google-oauth2/?code=4/... Django Version: 1.4 Exception Type: OperationalError Exception Value: FATAL: too many connections for role "ruwdncbzdkulsh"

Seems django debug is ON

Re: DIY B&B

#70

Post by drcube »

cletus wrote: post #26

I guess I shouldn't be surprised at the negative reaction to this here. The HN demographic is presumably tilted towards young men. What those criticisms seem to be neglecting is that those--particularly for apartment buildings--these temporary visitors impact beyond just you. In Australia, for example, one useful metric used by people when assessing apartment buildings to buy in is to look at the ratio of owner-occup…

So, your argument is that no one should open bars ever? Unless the neighbors get to vote and agree on it? Who counts as a neighbor? (I understand "the city" represents the neighbors and passes zoning laws, etc. That this is currently the case doesn't make it right.)

Yes, someone should be able to operate a brothel or bar on their own property. I don't see why this is even controversial, but for some reason it is incredibly so.

If the neighbors don't like it, they can move. As long as the owner isn't physically harming anyone, they should be left alone on their own property.

This whole argument is disingenuous, however, since the people complaining aren't neighbors, but hotels pissed off at having competition.

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