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Elon Musk wanted an OpenAI for-profit

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Re: Elon Musk wanted an OpenAI for-profit

#301
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I would certainly expect a radical change to economics even from a middling IQ AI — or indeed a low IQ, as I have previously used the example of IQ 85 because that's 15.9% of the population that would become permanently unable to be economically useful — I don't think it's quite as you say. Increasing IQ scores seem to allow increasingly difficult tasks to be performed competently — not just the same tasks fast…

I think this trend of using IQ as a primary measuring stick is flawed. Human minds and AI minds have radically different architectures, and therefore have different strengths and weaknesses. IQ is only one component of what allows a typical worker to do their job. Even just comparing humans, the fact that one person with, say, a 120 IQ can do a particular job—say they are an excellent doctor—obviously does not mean t…

This is it. Another primary example is that I can put a 80 IQ person to work on a farm or let them build something under supervision. There is no way for an AI to do either at this time, even if the AI is much smarter.

Re: Elon Musk wanted an OpenAI for-profit

#302
post #164
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So far we are multiple years in with much investment and little return, and no obvious large-scale product-market fit Literally every market has been disrupted and some are being optimized into nonexistence. You don't know anyone who's been laid off by a giant corporation that's also using an AI process that people did 3 years ago?

I know companies that have had layoffs - but those would have happened anyways - regular layoffs are practically demanded by the market at this point. I know companies that have (or rather are in the process of) adopting AI into business workflows. The only companies I know of that aren't using more labor to correct their AI tools are the ones that used it pre-ChatGPT/AI Bubble. Plenty of companies have rolled out "t…

> Even code gen seems pretty underwhelming to most of the developers I've heard from that have used it - it may very well be extremely impactful to the next generation of developers - but most current developers have already honed their skills to out-compete code gen in the low complexity problems it can competently perform.

I'm in academia, and LLMs have completely revolutionized the process of data analysis for scientists and grad students. What used to be "page through the documentation to find useful primitives" or "read all the methods sections of the related literature" is now "ask an assistant what good solutions exist for this problem" or "ask LLMs to solve this problem using my existing framework." What used to be days of coding is now hours of conversation.

And it's also above-average at talking through scientific problems.

Re: Elon Musk wanted an OpenAI for-profit

#303
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is nobody in these very rich guys' spheres pushing back on their thought process? Yes, frequently and loudly. When Altman was collecting the award at Cambridge the other year, protesters dropped in on the after-award public talk/Q&A session, and he actively empathised with the protestors . > So far we are multiple years in with much investment and little return, and no obvious large-scale product-market fit, much l…

Can you expand on your spreadsheet analogy? I think Joel Spolsky explained the main Office moat well here: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2008/02/19/why-are-the-micros... > ... it might take you weeks to change your page layout algorithm to accommodate it. If you don’t, customers will open their Word files in your clone and all the pages will be messed up. Basically, people who use Office have extremely specific expe…

> Can you expand on your spreadsheet analogy?

Sure.

(I've been coding long enough that what Joel writes about there just seems obvious to me: of course it happened like that, how else would it have?)

So, a spreadsheet in the general sense — not necessarily compatible with Microsoft's, but one that works — is quite simple to code. Precisely because it's easy, that's not something you can sell directly, because anyone else can compete easily.

And yet, Microsoft Office exists, and the Office suite is basically a cost of doing businesses. Microsoft got to be market-dominant enough to build all that complexity that became a moat, that made it hard to build a clone. Not the core tech of a spreadsheet, but everything else surrounding that core tech.

OpenAI has a little bit of that, but not much. It's only a little because while their API is cool, it's so easy to work with that you can (I have) asked the original 3.5 chat model to write its own web UI. As it happens, mine is already out of date, because the real one can better handle markdown etc., so the same sorts of principles apply, even on a smaller scale like this where it's more of "keeping up in real time" rather than "349 page PDF file just to get started".

OpenAI is iterating very effectively and very quickly with all the stuff around the LLM itself, the app, the ecosystem. But so is Anthropic, so is Apple, so is everyone — the buzz across the business world is "how are you going to integrate AI into your business?", which I suspect will go about the same as when it was "integrate the information superhighway" or "integrate apps", and what we have now in the business world is to the future of LLMs as Geocities was to the web: a glorious chaotic mess, upon which people cut their teeth in order to create the real value a decade later.

In the meantime, OpenAI is one of several companies that has a good chance of building up enough complexity over time to become an incumbent by a combination of inertia and years of cruft.

But also only a good chance. They may yet fail.

> On the other hand, people don't have extremely specific expectations for LLMs because 1) they're fairly new and 2) they're almost always nondeterministic anyway. They don't care so much about using the same one as everyone they know or work with, because there's no network aspect of the product.

For #1, I agree. That's why I don't want to bet if OpenAI is going to be to LLMs what Microsoft is to spreadsheets, or if they'll be as much a footnote to the future history of LLMs as Star Division was to spreadsheets.

For #2, network effects… I'm not sure I agree with you, but this is just anecdotal, so YMMV: in my experience, OpenAI has the public eye, much more so than the others. It's ChatGPT, not Claude, certainly not grok, that people talk about. I've installed and used Phi-3 locally, but it's not a name I hear in public. Even in business settings, it's ChatGPT first, with GitHub Copilot and Claude limited to "and also", and the other LLMs don't even get named.

Re: Elon Musk wanted an OpenAI for-profit

#304
post #58

I guess it's not news but it is pretty wild to see the level of millenarianism espoused by all of these guys. The board of OpenAI is supposedly going to "determine the fate of the world", robotics to be "completely solved" by 2020, the goal of OpenAI is to "avoid an AGI dictatorship". Is nobody in these very rich guys' spheres pushing back on their thought process? So far we are multiple years in with much investment…

The goal to "avoid an AGI dictatorship" may sound silly but it doesn't seem very far fetched that someone like Putin would replace themselves with a Putinbot which could then scheme to take over the world with their nukes much like now. One good thing about human dictators is at least they die eventually.

Re: Elon Musk wanted an OpenAI for-profit

#305

dumb question - in one of the emails they mention ICO. What is that? > I have considered the ICO approach and will not support it. ... > I respect your decision on the ICO idea Pretty sure they aren't talking about Initial Coin Offerings. Any clue what they mean?

It’s in an email from January 2018, between Silicon Valley tech bros, next to discussion of fundraising. Of course they’re talking about an initial coin offering.

Re: Elon Musk wanted an OpenAI for-profit

#306
post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The product market fit is fantastic. This isn't the first time I've heard random strangers discussing it in public. Hardly the evidence of PMF. There is always something new in the zeitgeist, that every one is talking about, some more so than others . 2 years before it was VR, few years before that NFTs and blockchain everything, before that it was self driving cars before that personal voice assistants like Siri a…

>people will move on to the next fad AI isn't really a fad. It's going to something more like electricity, say.

My favorite comparison right now is to the microwave oven.

It's a novel thing. It's not going anywhere. It makes some things easier, sometimes, in both personal and professional settings. But you're not at a big loss without it and in many cases your choice to do without is a choice that favors quality, control, nuance, and skill refinement.

Re: Elon Musk wanted an OpenAI for-profit

#307
post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will always love Kim Stanley Robinson but I dont care: please, Musk, go to Mars, you can have it.

I wonder if Elon Musk is of the Red or the Green mindset.

He is a Green. Has talked about detonating nuclear weapons over the poles to melt ice.

Re: Elon Musk wanted an OpenAI for-profit

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and no obvious large-scale product-market fit I'm afraid you are in as much an echo chamber as anyone. 200 million+ weekly active users is large scale pmf

It’s the fastest product to 100m users ever. Even if they never update their models from here on out, they have an insanely popular and useful product. It’s better at search than Google. Students use it universally. And programmers are dependent on it. Inference is cheap — only training is expensive. To say they don’t have PMF is nuts.

> It’s better at search than Google.

That’s hardly a high bar now.

> And programmers are dependent on it.

Entry level ones, perhaps.

Re: Elon Musk wanted an OpenAI for-profit

#310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and no obvious large-scale product-market fit I'm afraid you are in as much an echo chamber as anyone. 200 million+ weekly active users is large scale pmf

It’s the fastest product to 100m users ever. Even if they never update their models from here on out, they have an insanely popular and useful product. It’s better at search than Google. Students use it universally. And programmers are dependent on it. Inference is cheap — only training is expensive. To say they don’t have PMF is nuts.

>It’s better at search than Google

in what world? what it's good at is suggesting things to search, because half of what it outputs is incorrect, so you have to verify everything anyway

it does, slightly, improve search, but it's an addition, not a replacement.

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