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Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

bbc.com

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Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#781

Post by Salgat »

tacticalturtle wrote: post #405
Salgat wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it's morbid to discuss but the relief of financial burden on society is also significant. Not only do they die with dignity, but they are giving back to society.

This is not a good argument for MAID, and I think there are countless dystopian sci-fi stories that exhibit this reasoning that I’d like to avoid (The Giver, Logan’s Run, Soylent Green, etc) If we start looking at people who use MAID as selfless because they are “giving back to society”, and relieving the “financial burden”, what does that make people who choose to stick around? Are they selfish? No one should be pre…

To clarify, it's not an argument being made, it's an appreciation for the full extent of what they are doing.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#782

Post by sieabahlpark »

paulcole wrote: post #496
voisin wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he called his doctor and less than a week later he was also dead This is wild. How can they differentiate between grief and actual clear thinking desire?

> How can they differentiate between grief and actual clear thinking desire Personally I don’t think they should. Only I know what’s in my head. I think my rules would be: 1. Terminal diagnosis at any age - No questions asked. 2. Over 70 - No questions asked — just request MAID and get it. 3. Over 50 but under 70 - Have to request MAID 2 times, separated by 1 month waiting period. Waiting period resets after a year.…

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Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#783

Post by sangnoir »

wucaworld wrote: post #741
DanHulton wrote: post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are sufficiently mentally ill and determined enough to die that you get through the MAID screening, counselling, information sessions, etc, then you are determined enough to die by other, messier, likely more painful, certainly more traumatizing to the people around you methods. As well, mental illness is not just a state of mind. Sure, there are stories where a failed suicide attempt was the catalyst for some…

B.s. parent literally gave an example of someone that got access to MAID a week after their doc visit. I’ve changed my mind on things after a month. Not saying MAID is bad or should be banned. I’m saying people will 100 percent abuse the system. My concern is healthcare system practiioners. I am dealing with a ton of people whose job it is to press our family into a decision we don’t want to make. This includes an md…

> I’ve changed my mind on things after a month

...and what is the implication here? After I broke a bone, I was given a choice between surgery and a cast. I chose surgery - which cant be undone - and I half-regret it because when I bump into things and the titanium bits transferred the force straight to the bone, resulting in exquisite pain. Should I have been denied surgery because it can't be undone? I think not; I was given the choice, I hose what I thought was best. Did I make the correct choice? Probably not, but it was my choice to make, and expecting a system with 0% regret rate is impossible.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#784

Post by sieabahlpark »

xuki wrote: post #710
ProofHouse wrote: post #705

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s perverse and demonic. Many people have the worst days or weeks or years that they look back on and are grateful for the life they live later, physically disabled, paralyzed, elderly, etc. During the darkest of times is when we have to care for each other, not offer a knife so to speak. Even when many during these times would’ve wanted to die and suffer greatly. It’s part of life. This is absolutely sick in a civ…

It's fine if you want to suffer. I personally don't want to suffer, and that should be my choice.

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Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#786

Post by sitkack »

kstenerud wrote: post #698
DanHulton wrote: post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are sufficiently mentally ill and determined enough to die that you get through the MAID screening, counselling, information sessions, etc, then you are determined enough to die by other, messier, likely more painful, certainly more traumatizing to the people around you methods. As well, mental illness is not just a state of mind. Sure, there are stories where a failed suicide attempt was the catalyst for some…

My wife helped a friend die in Germany 10 years ago. He'd acquired some cyanide, which resulted in a long, protracted death because he took too much and vomited most of it up. It was messy, painful and traumatic, but she sat with him until the end. When someone is determined enough to die, they find a way.

I heard a first hand account of someone help their father with last stage cancer administer a morphine drip, everyone said their goodbyes and he went to sleep. Only to wake up hours later and say, it is working and they both struggled to milk the bag to increase the flow, they talked for 20 minutes while they both tried to "fix it" and he finally went back to sleep for the last time.

We need a humane way to treat humans.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#787

Post by alphan0n »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #751
dns_snek wrote: post #749

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you calling for nonconsensual human experiments that will (depending on the outcome) either inflict grave emotional injury onto people who are already so badly injured that they want to die, or that'll be used as a justification for stripping people of their bodily autonomy?

Yes, like catching people with nets who jump off bridges (and a vast majority are thankful of it).

MAID is the net in the context of impulse driven suicide. If a person’s natural death is not reasonably foreseeable, there is a 90 day assessment period.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#788

Post by yatopifo »

ProofHouse wrote: post #705
guyzero wrote: post #131

My Canadian parents are in their 80's so naturally a lot of their friends of the same age are dying. And two of them have been via MAID. In one case, which was surprising to me, a man who had survived cancer - he was not terminal but certainly wasn't getting any better - elected to die via MAID after his wife died. She passed, he called his doctor and less than a week later he was also dead. He got a chance to visit…

It’s perverse and demonic. Many people have the worst days or weeks or years that they look back on and are grateful for the life they live later, physically disabled, paralyzed, elderly, etc. During the darkest of times is when we have to care for each other, not offer a knife so to speak. Even when many during these times would’ve wanted to die and suffer greatly. It’s part of life. This is absolutely sick in a civ…

I don’t think you realize that euthanasia legislation was forced by a court even before the Liberals took power.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#789

Post by janetmissed »

toasterlovin wrote: post #263

What is the steelman argument for why it's okay to help people kill themselves a la MAID, but not okay to execute murderers? (Assuming the argument against capital punishment is that mistakes are often or sometimes made)

The main argument against capital punishment isn't even that mistakes are made. Capital punishment is more expensive and less effective as a deterrent for crime compared to life imprisonment.

The argument for MAID is more about terminally ill people being able to prevent excessive suffering. Also consent is a major difference between MAID and capital punishment

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#790

Post by llamaLord »

defrost wrote: post #692
llamaLord wrote: post #689

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get your point, but there are already MULTIPLE examples of people combining the mental-health component + some externality that is fundamentally a societal failing and coming to the conclusion that MAID is the optimal outcome. "An expert committee reviewing euthanasia deaths in Canada’s most populous province has identified several cases in which patients asked [AND WERE APPROVED] to be killed in part for social re…

And? That's a serious ask, not a snarky response. The headline is Canadians with nonterminal conditions sought assisted dying for social reasons and my question is, so what happened? Was she killed by the state or did she get some much needed assistance with housing, etc. (or neither). I'd argue that her coming forward is a good thing in the big picture as it adds concrete examples and data for making a case for bett…

Both examples were killed by the state... That's my point, the safeguards failed and the people were euthanized...
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