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Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

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Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#421

Post by darkerside »

School-Cotton wrote: post #298
SpaceManNabs wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really interesting because i ran into a pokemon bot the other day were its training led to calibration of 50% winrste at all levels of play on Pokémon showdown. It was a complete accident.

It's not hard to make a chess bot that plays at a 1300 strength, i.e. its rating would converge to 1300 if it were allowed to compete. But it will not play like a 1300-rated human. It would play like a superhuman genius on most moves and then make beginner-level blunders at random moments. Making one that realistically plays like a human is an unsolved problem.

So like a 1500 rated human?

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#422

Post by ZiiS »

hilux wrote: post #388
eitally wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I think what you're saying are "a lot of exceptions" are primarily going to be in what are historically referred to as "revenue sports" in the US -- football & basketball -- and also in individual sports where personal marketing is key to financial success (e.g. sponsorships). I don't see it as unexpected for there to be big egos and boisterous personalities in sports where individuals are hugely rewarded…

Trust me, there are plenty of real jerks in chess as well - at the top as well as at your local chess club.

The biggest problem is, unlike most sports, there are lots of under 10s who can easily decimate you and haven't yet learned how difficult wining gracefully is.

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#423

Post by pedroigor91 »

One of the worst-played matches in the history of the world championships. Both players made huge mistakes, decisive mistakes in previous matches, and a decisive mistake in this last one. What happened to Ding? Ten years ago he was playing great chess, which was a pleasure to watch. Gukesh was playing a nervous game, making mistakes by players much lower than his rating. At times it seemed like two Fide Masters playing. Terrible. Carlsen did well to give up the title, because any of the challengers for the title today would be no match for him.

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#424

Post by gnufied »

stormfather wrote: post #332
kelipso wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s his excuse anyway. If you can’t hold on to the title, no matter the actual or stated reasons, then you are simply not the World Champion.

Excuse? You must not follow chess too closely. He is the undisputed GOAT. He is clearly bored - he plays atrocious opening moves these days just to get an interesting game. He's so good he transcended the need to keep proving it. Excuse. Lmao. Gukesh is the WC only because he is not good enough to present an interesting challenge.

Magnus may be better player than Gukesh, but the reason he is not defending WC title is not because Gukesh or any opponent is not good enough, but because it takes too much freaking preparation to defend WC title and he doesn't think it is worth the effort.

A completely unprepared Magnus vs a 100% prepared opponent will go to a better prepared opponent (See Magnus interviews if you don't believe this). 4-6 months spending memorizing lines is not easy. It is too much work. Magnus has already proven he is GOAT, he doesn't have to prove anything.

But - this doesn't take away achievement from other players, if Magnus doesn't want to be bothered doing all the prep.I wonder if we will say the same thing in any other sport.

Ma Long for example - did not participated in Paris Olympic singles, does that mean Fan Zedong or Truls moregard achievement was any less? Nobody would say that.

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#425

Post by monooso »

kelipso wrote: post #358
monooso wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Magnus Carlsen is the highest rated classical player, and has been since 2011. It's also worth noting that is he is the reigning Rapid World Champion, the reigning Blitz World Champion, and the reigning Chess World Cup Champion. He chose not to defend his Classical world title, and has been quite clear about the reasons.

There are stated reasons and there are actual reasons. You have to differentiate between the two, otherwise you are just extremely naive.

Please, enlighten us all.

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#426

Post by monooso »

kelipso wrote: post #357
stormfather wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excuse? You must not follow chess too closely. He is the undisputed GOAT. He is clearly bored - he plays atrocious opening moves these days just to get an interesting game. He's so good he transcended the need to keep proving it. Excuse. Lmao. Gukesh is the WC only because he is not good enough to present an interesting challenge.

That's just what he says. He is obviously not going to publicly say that he is scared of competing in the WCC. But in all likelihood, he is. At least Ding could compete in the WCC without 6 months prep, which Magnus clearly cannot.

Your apparent personal dislike of Magnus Carlsen (based on this and other comments) does not make your baseless assertions any more convincing.

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#427

Post by brookst »

saagarjha wrote: post #420
register wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ding's was not objective neither thoughful, Ding was completely melted down after the interview and the interview was a reflection of that. Chess is a drawn game and the gist of playing chess is to be more resilient, blunder less and exploit as many of the chances you got in your game. Matches and games are won exactly because the opponent doesn't make the best of his chances. This is the cruel nature of the game. A…

TIL there are armchair quarterbacks for chess

I believe the term is armchair grandmasters.

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#428

Post by ludston »

register wrote: post #412
nomilk wrote: post #39

I was struck by Ding's thoughtfulness, objectivity and humility when asked how he felt after the match (while clearly utterly dejected): > How do you feel? > I think I played my best tournament of the year. I think it was a fair tournament in the end. I have no regrets. > Any message for fans? > Thank you, I will continue to play, I hope I can show strength like this time. Gukesh was equally as objective, humble, and…

Ding's was not objective neither thoughful, Ding was completely melted down after the interview and the interview was a reflection of that. Chess is a drawn game and the gist of playing chess is to be more resilient, blunder less and exploit as many of the chances you got in your game. Matches and games are won exactly because the opponent doesn't make the best of his chances. This is the cruel nature of the game. A…

I reckon Ding would probably beat you in chess, even if you had 2 hours and he only had 10 minutes.

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#429

Post by ludston »

throw310822 wrote: post #359
WJW wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even 1300s sometimes make the best move. Sometimes the best move is really easy to see or even mandatory, like if you are in check and MUST take that checking piece. Sometimes the best move is only obvious if you can look 20 moves ahead. Sometimes the best move is only obvious if you can look 5 moves ahead, but the line is so forcing that even 1300s can look that far ahead. Despite decades of research, nobody has fou…

Then I can't refrain from asking: and what's the style of LLMs? For example the ChatGPT which is apparently rated around 1800? That should be completely different from that of a classic chess engine.

ChatGPT will hallucinate and make impossible/invalid moves frequently, so I don't see how it could have a chess rating

Re: Gukesh becomes the youngest chess world champion in history

#430

Post by ludston »

stouset wrote: post #417
auc wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This lacks some context. Gukesh took Ding out of prep bc Gukesh prepped for 7 months, while Ding prepped for 3 weeks and basically wanted to retire from chess. Ding would be out of prep by move 8 as white and be an hour down on time very consistently.

Gukesh repeatedly played opening lines that went out of book shockingly early. No amount of prep can prepare you adequately for someone willing to go off script on move 6.

That is what high level chess has been for years: preparing lines where you have the disadvantage if your opponent plays perfectly, but it uses up their clock and gives you opportunities to punish mistakes in their calculation.

The same technique is used in ameture level chess too, although these are more likely to be piece gambits than merely positional ones.

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